FINAL SCRATCH 3 - will be announced soon

Discussion in 'General DJ Forum' started by Steveborough, Dec 21, 2006.

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  1. garret

    garret NI Product Owner

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    This thread seems to feature Traktor very little in comparison with the discussion of the technical capabilities of certain audio interfaces and policies of NI +/ Stanton.

    Shouldn't it be in the Final Scratch forum?
    There is a thread with a similar title here which, at the time of writing, has no replies.

    Why exactly are you guys arguing anyway?

    <edit class="correctlyclosedtag">
    actually, I don't really know why I posted this.
    But I'll leave it here for a laugh ;)
    </edit>
     
  2. LNE

    LNE Forum Member

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    59
    Ok, the language is getting worse. I try to stay objective.

    The biggest misunderstand of us three is that I was talking about locking out the SA1 (and other soundcards) out of DVS in TFS2 AND TDJ3. You were arguing that it was not capable to serve 4 line-outs. I agree, you wont be able to do so with the SA1 as it has only 2 stereo out. But why do you talk about 4 outs if the hardware is limited to 2 outs?

    My concern is, that only 1 soundcard is supported in DVS in both, TDJ3 and TFS2, even though lots of customers paid a lot of money for the SA1 (a not so good audio device).

    You argue, you can understand this decision by Stanton/NI. Of course you can have your own opionion on that issue, but dont argue with false or at least unprecise arguments. Reread your posts and think about how you defend the decision of Stanton/NI to lockout the SA1 (and other soundcards).

    In my opinion, it was a business decision and not because of technical limitation that could in no way be worked-around.

    Its totally fine that we do not agree if the decision to lock up the software to certain hardware was right or wrong.

    With respect to whom made the decision: All I know is that it was subject to the contract between Stanton and NI to coorporate in the development of "Traktor Final Scratch", that TFS and TDJ or at least the DVS implementation in Traktor only supporting Staton's Sratchamps. My information is, it is a contractual limitation for Native Instruments. I expect the contract to have the same limitation for Stanton (not coorporating with another software company like Alcatech or Atomix). But still, this cooperation and the contract is a MUTUAL agreement. Means NI agreed to implement and support only the Stantin Scratchamps. That is why I do not see any scenario where Stanton only made the decision.

    Just wanted to clear out my point of view.
     
  3. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

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    Lord give me frickin strength..... I'm out....

    Phil
     
  4. nem0nic

    nem0nic Forum Member

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    870
    LNE, sometimes things aren't true no matter how hard you believe in them. But you keep right on believing, and maybe if you're real good Santa will bring you a new Scratchamp.
     
  5. nik39

    nik39 NI Product Owner

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    757
    Where did you read that one? It makes no sense. Esp. since the Serato moderators have confirmed keylock will come with release 1.7.

    Thats also wrong. The DSPs of the TTM 57SL have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with keylock. Keylock will be available for the SL1 as well.
     
  6. nem0nic

    nem0nic Forum Member

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    870
    Simple keylock, not the 2 years in the making PnT based keylock that's been in in permanant alpha (Sam told me about the problems with it before I moved to Charlotte, which has been over a year now).

    My point is that DSP can be leveraged to do many things without taxing the CPU. I fully expect to see the TTM57 get independant key and pitch BEFORE SL1 users get it. The only reason I can figure it's not already out for the 57 is to maintain platform parity. And while this definately falls into the "wishful thinking" category, I still expect a new "SL2" to be released in 2007/early 2008 with DSP and USB 2.0.
     
  7. nik39

    nik39 NI Product Owner

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    757
    I dont understand your post. Do you mean they have problems with simple keylock due to the USB arguments, or problems with PnT due to your USB arguments?

    So Keylock will be out on the TTM57 before on the SL1?

    Sorry for the questions, I might be too tired to fully grasp ;)
     
  8. nem0nic

    nem0nic Forum Member

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    870
    What I'm saying is that I believe that Serato is working under some kind of limitation or else SSL would have already had key locking implemented. They obviously know how to make key correction software, so it's not a matter of creating a good sounding algorithm from scratch (although my personal experience with PnT at work is that it's much better at correcting complex source material than it is doing acapellas or spoken words - it's our default plugin for changing music but NOT for voice overs for this reason). And I wouldn't think it's a problem of implementing it within the framework of the DVS software, as the Serato DVS engine is well developed (being technically 2nd generation because of their "Scratch" plugin).

    The only reason I can guess is that they're trying to keep SSL as CPU light as possible. because they know it will negatively effect performance.

    The move to DSP processing in the TTM57SL leads me to further believe this. It's already using DSP for timecode processing to free up some USB bandwidth and allow for mix recording (which is what Phil was alluding to). And right now, the only other use of it's DSP is for the whopping 2 effectors. We know that onboard DSP isn't necessary to implement those effects - see Torq/Conectiv as an example. And we know that DSP isn't needed in order to apply those effects to non-SSL material (see Torq again). So I have to believe that Serato are going to use it at some point for something more than a cheesy reverb or filter.

    So yes, I believe that Serato are limiting the functionality of SSL so that it continues to perform well. I believe that the TTM57SL will implement independant key and pitch BEFORE SL1 users get that functionality (not the simple master key being implemented in 1.7). And I believe that the TTM57SL is a "proof of concept" for new hardware that will be released in the next year or so.
     
  9. nik39

    nik39 NI Product Owner

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    757
    Its coming. Else than that, the limitation is man power and priorities. Making the mp3 decoder stealth was more important. Stability first, I like that.

    All I can say, its coming. The developers said manyt times before, stability comes first, I doubt its a CPU power issue.

    Compressing the control signal, thats what you are referring to, is not something which takes a lot of DSP power, the control signal does compress pretty well. Besides this, the reason for that was, as you stated, limited USB bandwidth, judging from the moderators posts. So I cant see how compressing the control signal has to do with keylock.

    ...unless you want a standalone-no-pc-mixer-with-effects.

    We are sharing the same hope, well at least for me its a hope. But again, the TTM57SL has nothing to do with Keylock right now.

    I highly doubt that, but lets see what the future brings us :)

    Sounds reasonable.
     
  10. nem0nic

    nem0nic Forum Member

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    870
    Aren't all of our conversations this civil?

    BTW, major props on the SSL Wiki. It's a nice piece of work.
     
  11. nik39

    nik39 NI Product Owner

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    757
    Haha, we both wish :)

    Thanks, credits go out to all those who contribute and contributed so far.
     
  12. nem0nic

    nem0nic Forum Member

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    870
  13. nik39

    nik39 NI Product Owner

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    757
    Jinx! This board is monitored by Serato! :)

    Happy new year!
     
  14. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

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    26,792
    yes, nik - and i'm male, LOL :D

    p.s. will you be on the musikmesse frankfurt again this year?
     
  15. nik39

    nik39 NI Product Owner

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    757
    Nah, I dont believe you,... no offense, but you're too sexy to be male :-D
     
  16. FunkyRob

    FunkyRob Forum Member

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    87
    So, where do you live?

    so we can use some Abu Ghraib type treatments to force the info out of you???

    :)

    It's the end of the first week of January and I am so eager to find out what all this top secret stuff is.....

    Damnit!

     
  17. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

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    7,084
    Nem0nic live in Kazakstan. He number 8 DJ in all of land... come to think of it Kazakstan has only 9 DJ, he definitely not worst DJ in all of land.

    Uzbek DJ-son-of-beach signing off...
    Bye Bye
    Phil
     
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