frustration with user manual - or is it me? (newbie)

Hii there,

I feel stupid to ask the forum about most simple things because I just can't find the answer in the manual. To my opinion it is written to make software engineeers happy because it explains how the software functions but doesn't give the user a clue as to how to use it (the most scandalous statement is on page 150 top paragraph).
Latest Example: The sampler module has a startpoint control input. But there is no indication how to extract note on velocity data and use that to control the sample start as anybody would like to do it (the note on vel module doens't do it). The manual is largely useless anyway because it repeats with only little further info what is written under "info" in the module itself.
Is there anywhere a more complete / practical description of the modules? Like an on-line knowledge base? I know Len Sasso's book, excellent, but version3.

 

R4 isn't much different than R3. If you already know and love the Lasso book, then you should know enough to be fine.

 

It's not your fault. The manual is really reap. I've lost a lot of time to find out the way Reaktor, especially how it handels it's modules.

My advice: After having read the manual, you know the difference between Panel and Structure and other basics, the rest you have to gather in the user forum... bad english I know

greez

 

i think the user manual does a good job as a reference but because of the complexity of the subject at hand, its just not possible to teach how to do everything in reaktor without the manual turning into a 1000 page college course level textbook.
Your best bet is dissecting existing ensembles and for a specific task ask in this forum if anyone knows of an ensemble that already does what you need to do. 99% of the time what you need to do is already in the user lib, its just a matter of finding it.

 

I have gotten that answer before too - no need for you to create any ensemble or learn how to work with Reaktor - we advanced people already made everything you will ever possibly need so get it at the library - but what about the many people that want to learn to do something and maybe try to come up with their own humble little synth - that seems to be a very arrogant, pompous and holier than thou type of attitude. also I downloaded a top 100 synth yesterday and you could not get it to work no matter what you tried - not 1 freakin sound came out and no way to get a sound to come out of it - no ****!

so ----- then what?


seems like reaktor may have been a huge waste of money -- could have gotten another app that could have been more useful....

 

not at all! I understand your frustration, but don't stay at this attitude. Only the first (100?) hours are bad, then you start to get the hang out of Reaktor. It's really worth the money. The manual suc*s, but gather the missing information together from the forum and submit your questions, there are a lot of people to help you (like me ;-))

First of all, look for event processing. I've wasted months without this info!!!

Greez

 

which ensemble was that? let us know and we will investigate.
if people have questions about uploaded .ens it is always a good idea to ask a specific question, i have probably downloaded most of the user library, so it is a good bet that i can help


the manual is rubbish but reaktor is a great software.

when i first had reaktor i looked mostly at martin brinkmann's
creations. he has made some "simple things" and some that are a little more complicated, i really recommend looking at his stuff.

another person is dieter zobel.

a good thing when using this forum is to say, i want to build something that does "this that and the other" is there anything like it in the user library? sometimes you don't need to re-invent the wheel, you just need to change the tire.

sowari

 

ok ....i need to think about this ( i don't use note on vel).

Clist you are good this sort of thing.....

or someone else?

btw, it is still worth getting the sasso book


sowari

also have a look at:-

http://www.semaforte.com/reaktor/faq.htm

 

Re: Sample start.


take the Len output from the sampler. put it into a one input of a multiplier. and use the velocity module (or a macro that uses velocity as a modulator ) as the other input.

basically you are using different velocities as a percentage of 1
to modulate the different start points of a sample (also as a percentage of 1).

well, that is the theory......

sowari

 

Your problem with sample start and velocity is that the start position is set as number of 16th notes from the start of the sample.If your sample isn't long enough or if you don't scale the velocity down to say 0-4 instead of 0-127,it won't have any effect.
EDIThil,you beat me...that should work
ew

 

Sowari - mmd1 v1.0
martin brinkmann
(Studios)


4617 downloads
morp
was the one I could not get anything to happen - no notes, notta - also about 7 weeks ago I downloaded maybe 2-3 more and I could not get anything to happen otherthan the preprogrammed sample tunes that were included in the patch - i wrote about that for help and a heavy on this forum said - that one is too advanced have a look at an easier one - but i was interested in that one and interested in maybe trying to use it for a piece on one of my new Cd's and that was the response given - so it hasn't been all a cup of tea, so to speak - and yes about 2-3 people really helped - you did - EW and herw did - so thanks to them

 

it's weird coz here "mmd1" works right "out of the box"...
did you play start?
are you on mac/pc?

 

btw i dont think the manual is **** either,it does well the thing they choose to cover:the reaktor features.
nobody said it will be easy to "programm" with reaktor,
it s a long way for people who want to build advanced things,it requires knowledge about synthesis,dsp and programming (assuming there are ideas and imagination),i dont think one book is enough to cover all that is needed, so it assumes that you have the knoledge or that you will learn "the extra reaktor" in alredy existing documentation...
i think a lot of people need this manual as it actually is to begin with,but now,it's obvious that many people need more too,that doesnt mean this book has to be burned!

 

something i forgot,and we never point out:there is a "advanced" tuto by Ernest Meyer hidden in the Leviathan.pdf that really worth to be read...short but usefull one!

 

Do you really think you get that kind of attitude here a lot??

I think what happens is that it's very hard to explain to someone how to think, and it's much easier to show them. Especially if the concepts are really complex. That being the case, people will often say; "go look at this thing in the user lib. and you'll find what you need". They aren't saying; "don't bother doing the same thing, we've done it better", no one really feels that way. You can do whatever you want - you should learn for yourself, but if you ask a question it'll often be answered by someone saying; "yeah, I did that once, look here...".

Why? Well *everyone* here was a newbie once. Those of us who are very comfortable with the software have spent hundreds of hours making mistakes, pulling out our hair, looking at the work of other poeple (that usually have little or no comments), etc. We had the same manual to deal with. Don't take it the wrong way when we're too tired type up a detailed explanation for something that we had figure out on our own - possibly something that no one had done before.

Yes the manual sucks, and I know for a fact the NI is concerned about it and is working on improving it. - BUT if you are willing to put a bit of time in, you really don't even need it (here's a secret: I was using a warez version of Reaktor with no manual for a long time before I bought it in 2002!)

I don't get where this "we don't want you to learn anything" stuff comes from - no one here really feels that way (er, except maybe Herr Nowak!)

- CL

 

I found the Len Sasso book only moderately helpful since as new Reaktor 4 user I could not open the Reaktor v3 tutorial files which which made it a bit difficult to follow the directions at times. It certainly help if you can look at the instrument structure. A lot of the book has instructions on how to do things with limited explanation of why.

In learning Reaktor there are two issues. The first is learning how to use the program in the sense of what the menu commands do and the interface options and I think with this the manual does an adequate job.

The second is learning the art and science of sound creation and modification. Here the difficulties can arise because I suspect that here many new users of Reaktor (including myself) have very limited knowledge and this compounds the difficulty in learning the program.

I think the first priority of the new user, unless they are experienced in creating sounds with existing synths, to focus on using the existing ensembles (on which there are hundreds) as is to create sounds. It certainly would be more immediately productive if your aim is to make music. Then you can go on a modify their structures.

The fact is if you want to create synths in Reaktor it will take some time to learn. As a comparison I have a graphics program (actually based on a sound synth metaphor) which I have been learning for the last four years on and off and barely scratched the surface,

Often it is the journey and not the destination that is most valuable.

 

if you want to convert them ,i can do that for you...
feel free to email me.

 

this soft is so large, it tooks me 6 months to understand well enough how to use it, only to modify ensemble ! be sure i was totaly doomed, even thinking that my passion (creating music) was leaving me ! tenacity is required to control this app. but when you got it, it's the best program you'll ever see (personnal thought) ! as everybody said before, check the UL, you'll find some treasure in there, helping you to progress ;-)

 

frustrations with manual - 1st summary

Thanx,
I'm so grateful about your replies - some guys even offer the personal help. I will accept the offer and I promise I will try to find the answer myself 1st!
1) I'm not a newcomer to synthesis, actually I designed one cartridge of the factory sounds of the prophet VS for Sequential in 1987 or 88..
2) the existing ens are only of limited help because they are not documented
3) Max/MSPs manual is basically exemplary, there are 20+ tutorials that guide the newbie step-by-step. And yes, it is 1000 pages, so what
4) Len Sasso is cedited for the manual, so why doesn't NI (are they on-line here?) give him some extra cash and he adds stuff that he'd write in his book (R5?)

 

Sakabeat - I am on mac and when I open the ens. whether it is in view a or b - which deosn't seem to switch - there is no play button. hence - why I could not get a thing going with it and yes I thought that was weird.... but that is what was on my screen - and I tried to view various things - but could not open it or get it to play or work or whatever.


CLIST - I do not make stuff up - I was only respodning to the original post with my own comments re: some responses that I have been given and the implication that seemed to be implied by those very statements. That was it - there is and was no hidden agenda here....Just the facts! I also know this is dense and it takes work - but a bit more userf-friendly tutelage in the manual would be very helpful.


also - people say look at the user library and study the ensembles. well - sometimes you can stare at something for 2 weeks but if it doesn't make sense and you have no clue what the heck is going on and what you are looking at or loking for - then you end up just staring at it - like looking at Japanese if you do not understand Kanji! Kore wa nan desu ka?

You will turn blue in the face before you understand anything - and yes I have some background in this stuff - but I have trouble comprehending a lot of this stuff too.

when one knows what you know it is hard to be empathic because you are at the top of the class looking down and probably take a lot of this for granted -

so be it!