Getting Wonky

So some people think that FlyLo, Dorian Concept, Free the Robots, Burial, Starkey, and Zomby, and others are a type of music called Wonky.... ok whatever

All I want to know.... Is there anyone who knows the method to get beats like that.
I have the feeling it has to do with layering triplets and straight 4/4 together but I haven't had any success with my experiments.

Is there anyone making that kind of music with Maschine?
Care to Share?

 

just listened to Dorian Concept (hey, pretty cool!) you might wanna google 'binary-ternary'

 

hmmm not really what I'm looking for but thanks
but maybe more light needs to shed as to what I'm talking about.

here are some examples
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOZA5xsNicE"]YouTube- Dorian Concept - Fort Teen[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7AE1YddwFg"]YouTube- Free the Robots - Mental Universe[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85YZNtoo2MY&feature=related"]YouTube- Flying Lotus - Beginners Falafel[/ame]



I'm trying to deconstruct these to find the ingredients to get that askew beat but keep it still somehow enjoyable.
its like Zappa electro

 

Fort Teen is exactly what ternary is all about,
Mental Universe is strictly binary, while Beginners Falafel is ternary again.

you're looking for that slight 'out of timing' feel right?

well, just play everything slightly too late?

 

you've given me two arbitrary terms I know nothing about (yet).

substitute Binary with Rabble and Ternary with Robble and it would mean about the same except it would be funnier to me.

Do you care to take the time to explain this concept or should I just spend hours sifting through google searches which tbh ain't gonna happen. Preferably with audio examples that you can demonstrate.

It doesn't make sense to explain 2 different terms as simply as "just play everything slightly too late
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I researched a little what you were talking about but everything I found talked about binary/ternary as it related to melodic phrases not rhythm or meter.

what I'm talking about is, and I'll use beginners falafel as the example.
the song seems to be in 4/4.
if I count 1 2 3 4 the snare seems to be on 2 and 4.... ok got it
and there is a cymbal in the background on every beat....ok got it.
but what is that haty/shaker sound up front doing? is it triplets? is it dotted eights? is this song not 4/4 at all and my count is all off?
or are some elements 4/4 and some elements some other meter like 6/8 or something?
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ok. take fort teen for example - just listen to the shakers at e.g. 0:30 - this is ternary.

the thing is that normally you would divide an 1/8 note into two 1/16's. when played ternary, they are divided into "quasi"-triplets, but not really, because they are divided asymmetrically - on beat into two parts, the off-beat into three parts - this is difficult to describe, so just listen to it on 'fort teen'. hope this helps a lil

 

"quasi"-triplet? but not really?
difficult to describe....yes
hopes it helps a little.... yes now I have to go looking for what the hella quasi triplet is so I can then know that it's not really that

but thanks for taking the time to try to help my density

 

I think you should try playing your drums without any quantize and you'll get this kind of groove.

It remains me some J. Dilla or Madlib productions

I like it very much

 

but you see, and I've tried the no grid dealy, my problem is even if there is no grid I still tap out beats that are "on" the grid. yeah some notes are slightly late or early. and it doesnt sound like this type of music.

there is a distinct thing that is happening here and I want to know what it is. yer right it is very Dilla.

another example:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnXxj5gKkqg&feature=related"]YouTube- Hudson Mohawke - Star Of A Story[/ame]

 

i read an article where hudson mowhawke explained some of his techniques. if i recall it right he was recording the beats quantisized , switched grid off and moved some of the notes with the mouse til it felt far out enough. smth like that...plus hudson is like madlib a musicians son i guess ,might be some mothers milk deal as well
this one [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_36Bw_t-fgU"]YouTube- Hudson Mowhawke - Overnight[/ame]
is in the top 5 of my sickest beats of this decade , think i heard it bout a thousand times ,now again..... ahh cant stop

 

Love this. It's kind of like a | 1-2, 1-2-3-4 | kind of thing to me. Shifting to 'double time' or 'triple time' as a drummer would call it to me.

A shifting in and out is a delightful rhythm back and forth. Going to keep this on my watch list.

 

To me it's not ternery at all ... but will ask to my girlfriend she is a champion of that .... well the guy is just playing a sort of late with the hit hat but ....
To me ternary should make 123/123/123/123 for or 8 times like the real blues
this time got the snare on the fourth time , and the hit hat late but still make 1&2&3&4&5&6&7&8 ....


cool beats anyways


by the way, it should be fun to hear what could make a 3/time or 5 times etc electronic music ....
why not an experimental grid in a future update ? and ternary grid as well

 

Really enjoy those types of beats. Outstanding stuff. I try to make stuff along those lines as well, but couldn't explain any of it. Still just starting and learning, mashing on those buttons and move things around til it sounds right Do you have a soundcloud or other page? Good luck! Here's the link to my humble beginnings. Only Maschine and factory sounds (tweaked):

http://soundcloud.com/gronxkey

 

Flying Lotus is GREAT! He did a Dilla remake of Slum Village's : "Fall in love" that's just aces. Also a remix of "A million" for Lil Wayne that's off the charts! Plus he's one of my facebook friends and he actually will write you back! Good dude...ya'll should look up Mike Slott, Aspect One, Afta-1, Elaquent, Rustie, Samiyam, Black Monk, 00Genesis, Q-Man1, Little Professor and two of my favorites, Ras G. & Mr. Dibiase! They all gets down.

 

nodoze, looks like you and I listen to alot of the same radio shows... I've found some many other undiscovered sounds like those you mention on soundcloud that I now am lucky to follow. Music the past couple of years has really blown my mind. Do you have any public tracks out there? Take care!

 

I've got an old myspace page that I don't update anymore : www.myspace.com/corduroybill...check out some of my ish dude! I may update it again sometime...soon?

 

Try playing your beats in half time. Say you want like a 90 bpm song, make the tempo 180. It seems to give me a bit more groove when I play half time. I also think that FlyLo and Hudson Mohawke (and a lot of other beat musicians within and near their genre) use a lof of delays. Make a regular, straight forward hi hat or shaker pattern, put a beat delay effect on it. Then play with the timing, offset and crossover knobs. Record automations. Have fun with it.

We should start our own thread Wonk/Dubstep. Those Hip Hop thread dudes are mad productive and making some ill beats.

 

+1

 

nice thread, which i have only just come across.

fwiw, NI's Reaktor software is great at making the sort of music in the examples.

sowari

 

The stuff I've been able to get out of Reaktor has sounded pretty amazing... its has this kind of crisp sharp quality to it that I really like....
But farq its difficult to figure out whats going on..... for me anyway when I'm trying to write something.

I've been debating on whether to dive in to one of the visual modular environment software. Max for Live seems to have more info. But I like Reaktor also.... I wish there was some good information on it. Its like heiroglyphics and wizardry.

I hope that NI does some kind of revision of Reaktor to make it more user friendly.... or give it like a dumbass layer where you don't need to get all under the hood. But I guess that's why there's Kore.

Also see: Street Bass and Aqua-Crunk
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less hip hop than the others but still demonstrates the beat style.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtVwDn7fJr4&feature=related"]YouTube- Bullion - Are You The One?[/ame]