Glitchy/Clicking Samples in Berlin Grand Piano Library

Hey guys, I'd really appreciate if you could try to reproduce the following issue. I'm an avid piano player and this issue has been driving me nuts on soft pieces. I emailed NI support (ticket 2014121610007683) and after providing specific instructions, a recording of the problem, and waiting almost a full month, they simply said they "cannot reproduce the error." (It's not even an error, it's a glitch in the audio!). Sigh.

The problem is that there are clicking piano samples in the "Berlin Grand with Overtones" instrument in the Kontakt 5 library. The clicking only occurs when the sustain pedal is depressed and held down - it does not happen without sustain engaged. It also only happens at specific velocities. It happens on three notes - the D, E-flat, and E above middle C.

Here's a link to a recording of the problem: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zgs8ocntjd9x5wz/ClickingPiano.wav?dl=0

This is Kontakt 5.4.2 with the "Berlin Grand with Overtones.nki" instrument loaded. No other plugins. Buffer is set to 512 samples, sample rate 88.2kHz, 24-bit depth. The problem can be heard as follows (notice how I'm increasing velocity with each hit until the clicking can be heard):

* At 0:09 until 0:23 (that's the E above middle C) - clicking on the attack
* At 0:30 until 0:39 (E-flat above middle C) - clicking on the attack
* At 0:41 until 0:47 (D above middle C) - percussive-metallic artifact (less of a click) on the attack

This was present in both Komplete 9 and is still present in Komplete 10. Tested on two different computers (MacBook Pro and a Mac Pro) with two separate Komplete 9 and Komplete 10 installations. I am running Kontakt 5.4.2.245 on OS X Yosemite 10.10.1 on both machines. All latest updates installed.

Thanks for helping me out.

 

Curious to see if the same problem happens in the Berlin Grand *without overtones* patch.

 

Overtones are just harmonics (multiples of the fundamental). Digital clicks are definitely not overtones. I'll test the no overtones instruments just out of curiosity.

 

I know. I'm asking because I'm wondering if one of the post-processing algorithms is causing it (which might be in the Overtones instrument but not in the dry instrument), or if the clicks are in the original samples. It'd be unlikely that the clicks would be in the original samples and no one noticed it until now (the Berlin piano has been around for many years).

 

Oh, I didn't know about the post-processing algorithm, I figured it's all just samples. Good point - I'll test the "no overtones" instrument and report back.

 

The Berlin Grand is definitely clicking with or without the overtones. Tone C#1 on a medium velocity even has two clicks. I've exported mixdown of just that one tone and you can hear first click at ~0.8 sec and the second one at ~4.5 sec. Please listen to the linked file. This tone clicks every time at medium velocity at the same positions with all instruments from the Berlin Concert Grand library. You can even go into edit mode in the sampler and find the sample that has clicks, it is named: Bech-R(C1)-dB(3316)-T(ML)-M(52)-P(695-02-04). When you play it in the sampler you can hear the clicks as well. The fist click is so loud that you can even see it in the sampler if you zoom in all the way. Please take a look at the linked screenshot.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6dd86zt7zzduqr2/Mixdown.wav?dl=0 (mixdown)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w8k0q5kjn5zcoeh/berlin_clicks.png?dl=0 (screenshot)

Other samples have clicks as well, this is just the one I was able to isolate. I'm quite surprised that NI hasn't noticed this before.

Is there any way to path the library or somehow remove the clicks?

 

Yeah, open instrument edit mode, find the offending sample(s) in the Mapping Editor, remove the zone, then stretch the neighbour zone to fill in the hole.

Since that piano is discontinued, there won't be any updates, so this is the only way you can fix it yourself.

 

Ok, I have a few questions:

1. Is it possible to somehow export/edit/replace the sample? I'd rather fix it than loose one sample. I can't find export button and when I click on external editor button I get a message saying that "external editing is not possible for this sample".

2. If I have to loose a sample and replace it with a neighbor zone, which neighbor zone should I stretch over it? The one with the softer/heavier velocity or the lower/higher pitch? I believe that the note with the same pitch would be a better candidate. If I take the softer/heavier velocity should I also update the some volume of the note?

3. Is there a list of all defective zones for Berlin Grand Piano or I will have to go through all of them and listen to them one by one?

Thanks in advance.

 

1. No, it's an encoded library.
2. Same velocity, adjacent key.
3. There's no such list, you'd have to go through them all yourself if you want to be 100% sure.