Guitar Rig Vs Amplitube !

German software maker,

Why isn't ENGL already in the list of presents and amplifiers.

Something to think about as ENGL is based in Germany as well.

Signed,
"Cide"
Nigel Kristian McLeod

 

Yeah but ENGL sounds like crap, so why model it?

 

90+% of your tone's in your hands. The rest's the gear...

ew

 

Yes, well... and how do you justify picking the worst possible 10%?

Having worse hearing that 90% of the population?

Sorry, I'm a producer The "tone is in you" trick doesn't work on me - My life is to compensate for musicians lack of talent with better sound quality! Tough luck :lol:

 

Tone is in the ear of the beholder.

 

True or not, you have to understand that if everyone followed that mentality musicians would be a lot crappier, producers wouldn't worry about making a hit radio-ready, and gear manufacturers would just settle for solid state circuitry and balsa wood guitars...

So lets say you're right, but hope people don't think like that all the time

 

Well, maybe you missed my point. Tone is what you think it is. When Eric so rightly points out that "Tone is in your hands", I think a better description is that it's in your ears. We play what we like to hear -- even subtle things like pick angle all lead to our final sound ideal.

When my students ask me how to get a better tone, I tell them to play as much as they can with their amp. The more they play, the better they are at controlling their own sound.

For example, I hole my pick in a peculiar way. It makes playing fast very hard, but the tone is so much better. On the same guitar I'll sound very different than you will -- heck, if I turn my pick a few degrees, I'll sound different...

It's all extremely subjective.

M

 

Your students? Well i do hope you're aware that's not really the answer they need or expect if they ask you that question. But ok, I won't question your teaching methods.

Of course it is subjective, of course it is relative. We're all musicians aren't we? This is art, it's supposed to be subjective. Usually when you're at a professional level in this field you don't keep hammering that obvious quote over and over again. It just sounds stupid! I'm sorry.

In that case I would never buy books with producer interviews or I'd never discuss anything about music with anyone! I would just say "it's subjective" and walk away without learning anything.

That's what you guys are doing right now. This is a forum. You're supposed to discuss what's better to you, and give a reason for that. That's how you learn in anything art related, last time I checked.

But ok, you guys want the obvious answer that won't force you to think too hard? Fine: "yes it's subjective, I'm sorry for not respecting your delicate artistic taste".

Now excuse me while I'm gonna keep evolving for a while.

 

Part of the fun of being a teacher, and my particular method (whether you agree of not) is that I leave the personal aspects of playing guitar up to the student. Things like tone and style, I can't show. I'm sorry, they have to learn it for themselves -- I expose them to as many different players as humanly possible and make them learn and transcribe music from each of them. They learn on their own, they do it by listening. Transcribing is a deeper form of listening. But in the end, they come to whatever end they like -- who am I to say what's right? When a student reaches a particular level, it's up to them. If i don't like it, i'm starting to relate my own ideal upon them, which is not good. I don't need to have a student like what I like, and I have to be open to their own experiences and their own goals, especially when they are divergent from my own.

Sure, there are some times where you have to put your foot down if something is wrong, or badly played, but I'm not personally in the business of making clones and I think that the best teachers are the ones who bring out the best in their students, and you can only bring out what's already there. I can't teach talent, I can only foster it.

I turn my pick at an odd angle because I had a sound in my head and this was the way that I got it to come out. I experimented, a lot... One day, it was just kind there.

As for the tone is in my hands... I listen back to my earlier recordings, and as they years went on, my tone had largely unchanged, ever though I had undergone changes from solidbody to hollow, to semi-hollow, flatwound to roundwound to half-round strings, different pics, new amps, Guitar Rig... Every time, it's me and it's always something I laugh at. No matter what I do, I sound like me...

I found your answer a bit defensive and I hope that you didn't find my responses antagonizing in any way. Clearly, if you have a system that works for you, go for it, but please don't chastise others for having their own way. When a producer says that he "just heard it", he's not lying, he just isn't able to recreate verbally what took his ears a split second to decipher. When someone can take a sonic idea and put it into words, they become a passer of information; they become a teacher and not everyone has that.

This is an interesting discussion, but let's make sure we keep the temperature down. No one likes to have their opinions suppressed.

 

Oh that's a great teaching attitude, I'm just saying it's not a good forum discussion attitude... that's all

By the way you seem to be a great jazz player, I love that kind of stuff.
One of my favorite teachers (songwriting and singing classes in Pasadena) who's a great friend of mine, won a grammy in 86 for best jazz vocal group, and that's exactly where we differ in our ways: he acts more like a teacher (you remind me of him, by saying that) and I believe sometimes it's very good to be a little more closed minded about your opinion and fight a little about it. I'm 24 now and I know a lot of my experience in this field was acquired by dealing with great "closed minded", but talented professionals. If you don't defend what your own artistic taste tells you, who will?

 

Ah, I remember 24... My Mind has been expanding ever since...

I don't know if there is a good "forum discussion attitude". I think the beauty is in the diversity of attitudes. Just like cabs in New York, if you don't like the first one, wait 5 seconds and another comes along.

As for how you feel: you gotta fight for what you believe in.

M

 

I'm 52 and I've been playing for longer than you've been alive.
I repeat myself- your tone is in your hands. It doesn't matter if you're Joe Blow or Mr. Rockstar...

When you're first starting out, the choice of amp can make a difference; if you like what you hear, you're more confident and play better, which makes you sound better, etc. Like most of us, I went through tons of amps for quite a few years; everything from refrigerator sized stereo rigs to little 30 watt combos. Once I realized that an amp is just a tool and not an end in itself, I could concentrate on what makes my playing me.

I sit in with a few friends' bands from time to time; I just bring my guitar and play using whatever amp's handy. The people who've heard me doing this with multiple bands always comment on how I sound the same, no matter what I'm playing through.

ew

 

Yeah yeah whatever yadda yadda blah blah

 

Erm, the gear you use will have a specific tone for sure, but an amp doesn't play itself. You can shape and mold it to a certain degree, but in the end you're stuck with the way them strings are fingered and picked. We're not playing Casio keyboards that give off the same sound no matter how you strike a key.

 

blah blah blah

lol

 

Whoa, who needs musicians anyway if we got producers like that?

 

No wonder he's a producer.

Yadd yadda, blah, blah, blah.

 

maybe I'll order this http://www.steinbergcanada.com/products/instruments/virtual_guitarist.htm and have it play through my rig from now on.

 

I'll take some more cowbell.

 

I must agree with you. I have worked with GR2 quite a bit and the high gain sounds ARE lacking. It's not just "punch" IMHO, they all sound very artificial and seem to be very muddy which I know is a vague and overused term but I can't get much transparency.
Also, there are resonant frequencies with the cabinet models that don't exist in reality. I don't think the amp models are to blame however.
Try this . . . take the GR2 "Gratifier" and the AT2 "modern tube lead" and play them through the same cabinet simulation. They almost sound identical to each other except for the power tube break up in GR is much more realistic.
A lot of my tonal issues with GR lie in the cab simulations which is why I mainly use IMPULSES for my heavy stuff. They make a world of difference with the high gain stuff.