GuitarRig 4 wishlist

It's hard for a layman to discuss these things. . . It would be interesting if an engineer from NI popped in and provided some knowledge. After all, they claim to be 'monitoring' this forum.
Certainly: it's pretty simple logic and makes sense that you need at least two waves of a waveform to determine its pitch. If you take 100 Hz as an example, which is pretty near the low G on guitar; each wave takes one 100 of a second, or ten milliseconds. Two waves @ 100 Hz = 20 ms. This is the minimum of time any system must have to determine this pitch, and it must be added to the latency already present in the system. Interestingly, higher pitch gives lower latency, since two waveforms of the open G string at ca. 200 Hz will take only 10 ms, and 1. string G on the 3. fret will only need 5 ms and so on.
Then what to do with this number? Pitch shifters are categorized as 'delay' effects, since it continously takes snippets of the sound and plays it back - only resampled / pitch shifted. The longer 'snippet' you take, the smoother the pitch shifted signal can sound, is general wisdom. And you also need some processing time for that resampling. Add a large chunk of even more latency. . .
The factors above are unavoidable, but manufacturers have different ways of compensating for the delay trouble. Exactly how are their secrets, but my guess is 'rough guessing' the first few milliseconds, and synthesised pitched signal, quickly replaced by more accurate data and sampling as the note sounds.
I am not sure how relevant the RISC vs CISC or dedicated DSP vs general purpose CPU discussion is, since the latter is so powerful now. A 2.5 gHz CPU have 2.500.000.000 clock cycles per second. When you devide this with a 44.100 sampling rate you are left with over 50.000 clock cycles to spare between each of those samples! Yes, you will need quite a few of them to run the OS and the app, tasks a DSP doesn't have to deal with in a different architecture. (DSP = Digital Signal Processor; often a specialized chip 'hard' programmed for a specific task) But: there is a point where a 'general purpose' chip like our x86 CPU from Intel or AMD is powerful enough to do it all. My example is simplified, but I've left out the other CPU core(s) to have plenty of headroom. Remember you can record and play back that 44.1 sample in multiplies of ten and twenty in paralell (multichannel audio) on even modest computers. Shouldn't there be room to do some heavy duty signal processing on one sample then? It doesn't make sense. This is not ten-fifteen years ago. Back then Eventide ruled with their Harmonizers choc full of DSPs (and came at the prize of a small car), but - and this is an important point - there were also devices like the Roland GP100 that I had, which offered 'pretty good' harmonizing at a much lower price point. Development has bridged the gap, and surpassed the capabilities even the most specialized chips had back then. Somehow I just expect more from GuitarRig on this front then what they've made so far.

 

Will we see GuitarRig as a reorganized family? For instance:
GuitarRig 4 pro will be the logical extension of the current GuitarRig (full version), with even more bells & whistles added, and the most esoteric current effects will only be found here. A new RigKontrol with tuner display (and more?), double sets of outputs (assignable), MIDI that has a function. . .
GuitarRig 4 Standard edition will be somewhere between the current app and XE. A new RigKontrol could be without MIDI (avoid confusion etc.) and in plastic perhaps. A product aimed at competing with the better Boss floor units etc.
GuitarRig 4 Junior will be the 'Gargage Band Killer'; more limited feature set than the larger versions, but High Quality sounds that will put the others cheap offerings in the shadow.

Hopefully this could allow for development of a 'pro' version that doesn't need to cater for all. User friendliness for an experienced player is a quite different thing than it is for a beginner. Personally I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for a 'pro' GuitarRig.

 

I think the 12-string preset is not as complex as it seems.
We already have a pitch shifter that we can set to +1 Octave. Can't we just have the same type of effect, but the pitch shifter doesn't produce any notes above the 5th fret A (1st string)?

 

I made a cheap 12 string sim. I'll describe it in the tone workshop area.

 

Please put an Audio Isolation Transformer or somtehing else in the Rig Kontrol 4 to cut the ground loops.
Pleaaase !
When I use GR with my laptop and an Marshall amp, I've got a buzz if I plug the AC's laptop.

 

back on the harmonizer topic, riggy is a plugin to all sorts of DAWs, a hardware harmonizer wouldn't be that much use for processing sounds that are already recorded, and a pure software one, even if not great for live playing would be brilliant for working on sounds in a mix irrelevant of processor speed. get a best fit sound for live playing and a perfect sound for pre-recorded tracks when the app can have a fair lookahead and i'll be happy.

 

I really hope NI starts modeling guitars to compete with Roland and Line 6. If it's all in GR, that'd be sweet.

 

I'd call it highly unlikely that NI will start modelling guitars. The existing solutions all require divided hex pickups, not something which is terribly common to guitars.

 

...it's a wishlist.

 

In that case, how about a cappucino machine plugin ;-)

 

Guitar modeling isn't that unrealistic, especially for guitarists who venture into the world of digital effects and amp modeling. the hex pick up is becoming more popular now that the VG-99 offers guitar modeling like the line-6 variax. I'd also argue that more experimental guitarists who use a synth converter are more interested in computer based processing. i don't think it's unlikely at all. It's the next logical step after amp modeling.

the Roland GK-3 hex pickup cost ~$200. that's a comparatively small price to pay if the next version of guitar rig includes les pauls, strats, teles, richenbackers, acoustics, a sitar, a banjo, and even midi capability to use with kontakt.

relative to every other industry, guitar tech is moving way too slowly. It only progresses if there is an interest in innovation.

 

Oh, I've certainly got that interest having been thru many GK pickups, a VG-8, 88 and 99 and a GR-33, I just don't see NI going this way, but, as you suggest, it's a wishlist. Many days I'm somewhat surprised that the GK technology didn't really go as far as it could have, though then again, one needs to only look as far as Parker and their Belew model Fly to see just how far it CAN go, full GK and Variax all in one.

One of the reasons Im here is I dumped a Vetta system to move to GR3 and I've certainly had no regrets with that. And if NI did see fit to bring in GK pickup based modelling, I'd happily slap a pickup back onto one of my guitars.

However, as a truly serious request and Im sure this has been suggested earlier in this thread... an effects loop!

 

"Today's Avant Garde is tomorrow's commodity"
. . . or something like that. It certainly goes for technology. Many of the current audio apps comes bundleed with a 'guitar suite' of some kind for free now, which while it doesn't rival GuitarRig in quality, it fills the need for some users. This 'free' software will only improve and move potential customers away from for instance GuitarRig, so NI must be innovative to attract customers willing to pay for their (better) product. As amp sims and effects become 'commodities', software like GuitarRig must offer something unique to merit an existense. Modelling is one logical path to venture into. Personally I'm not so sure this is my #1 wish, but you know. . . I'm sure NI has the finger on the pulse here, and the challenge is how to still keep the application relatively 'easy to use'.

I've done some video editing over the years, and I used Adobe Premiere from v4 (that is, before it was re-labeled PRO and started counting at 1 again). It was a 600€ investment back then, for the software only. Premiere v4 could do less than you can with Windows MovieMaker, iVideo and suchlike today - free software. I still use Premiere (it's called PRO CS4 now), it has a heap of new features, but somehow it's almost easier to use than it ever was. That's how it must go.

 

I'd like a convolution reverb/cabinet sim module, so that we can load up impulse responses and get better tone than with any physically modelled cab.

For amps: Peavey 5150 (or 6105+), Engl Powerball, Carvin Legacy, some higher end Diesel or VHT.

 

Ability to load a preset with a specific file in TapeDeck I ready for playback.

For live use when you might play in a one-man-band situation, you could have icons for your presets, and when you doubleclick one not just the GuitarRig preset loads, but your backing track as well. This is much much faster than going into the TapeDeck I menu to locate your backing track, and then select a new preset for your sound (or vice versa). More convenient especially in a live situation.

(This request is inspired by a question from 'gbevin' in another thread)

 

even though you can assign multiple parameters to one switch or exp pedal using the 'modifier' option, i still wish you could control multiple parameters using the 'remote' option. the learn feature is so nice to use, and it's a pain to have to combine remote parameters and modifier parameters because they never stay consistent across patches.

please: multiple control assignments via 'remote' so we can use the 'learn' feature for everyting

 

Personally, I don't see the need for adding additional amp models - all the basic flavors are well represented - and the advanced controls allow you to 'tune' them considerably. Same with the distortions. Same with cabinets. I can't complain about the power and flexibility on offer here.

I wouldn't mind a few extra flavors of modulation effects.

The single reverb module is a bit limiting. How about introducing a Convolution/IR module? That way we could use it for cabinet IRs or reverb IRs? yeah? Are you with me people?

Utilities: I was thinking about a routing module where you could have 3 or 4 FX in a group such that when you engaged one, it disabled any other active module (or chain) in the group. dis-engaging the active module made all of the modules or chains in the group in-active. Does that make sense? In my example I could have a Booster, OD and Fuzz in the group CLick button 1 to engage boost, disable OD & Fuzz, 2 - engage OD, disable boost and fuzz, click 2 again and all are inactve - you get the idea.

Dynamic delay would be welcome.

I own or have tried many many modelers, both HW and SW, and my go-to solution is GR with the Rig Kontrol - it sounds great, easy to setup and configure, super flexibile and powerful.

 

I'm with you on these. Actually you can switch entire groups in/out now, either with Splits (the old way) or with 'Snapshots'. Most would say it is awkward to do, so a more intuitive approach would certainly be welcome!
Dynamic delay is also possible to do now with attaching the Input modifier to any delay components wet/dry knob. You can even smooth the signal going from the Input modifier, so that you have a soft mix up on the delay signal. This is not intuitive unless you are a tech head like me - but even I would rather prefer to have a dedicated switch / knob for this on the delay component's panel.

 

I see Guitar Rig is falling from it's throne as the best amp sim. They need to make it better. The only amsim that beats guitar rig is DIG 2.5 (not released yet), I beta-test it and it owns, so you need to speed up to release a ampsim that pawns them all.

 

You cannot compare GR3 and acmebargig's little buggy vsts. They are a pain in the arse to use. Try to use them on daily basis and discover that they are pure horror.

Don't tell me you use them everyday. You play around with them everyday, but you don't use them in depth.

I think the guys at the acmebargig forum are just a bit over exaggerated about what's coming and they don't realise what's possible in software development. Once Ken from acmebargig starts to bugfix his software, he'll slow down even more then he already did.

I don't take his promisses for real unless they are achieved and proven by released software. This reminds me of another software: revalver mkiii: Buggy like hell and somehow unusable, if you want more than just a simple amp in your setup. They promissed guitar player's heaven like acmebargig.
Same old story. Promisses, promisses, promisses. The beta testers of mk iii raved about it. Does this sound familiar to you?

So, if i just want a plain amp there is already enough freeware. If i want more then i'll use GR3. There is no need for another (free) amp sim. And Ken will start to ask for money soon. For every update of every single plugin, he'll! Read it up on their forum.

The road for acmebargig is long to go. It'll take them 2 years to get the same usability and versatility GR3 offers.

I'll stick to quality and useability. That's why i chose GR 2 back then. That's why i updated to GR 3.


NI will release GR 4 when it's done. They deliver finished software like Blizzard does.
And that's what i demand. Not a prefinished maybe version coming soon.

Will i try and test the next release(s) of acmebargig? Yes, i am not ignorant.
But there will be no bonus for acmebargig. They have to prove that they can convince by quality and useability. I expect them to fail, again. That's my experience with software and promisses in last 20 years

Sorry, pal.

added later:
"Yeah we were all ready for a release, got the videos out started promoting, and then BOOM! What seemed to be a small error was reported but after I got into it, I found that fixing one thing caused another to crash. So, DIG 2.5 has been re-written, almost to its entirety. So, we have gone back into re-testing.

Sorry, but we are trying hard to get it right, and DIG 2.5 the last build, I did not feel confident in it..

KM"