Hardware, Hardware, Hardware

Fractal Audio has the Axe-Fx Effects Processor.

Digidesign has the Eleven Rack.

NI needs a 2U rack device specifically designed for GR.
Maybe NI should team up with Muse Research and do something like the Receptor but specifically designed for GR.

Features should include:

1. Extremely low latency.
2. Multiple outputs for connecting to real amps, recorders, and PA.
3. Ability to connect a monitor, mouse and keyboard.
4. Seamless integration with Mac and PC for exchanging presets and setups ect.
5. MIDI in and out for foot controllers and / or any other midi controllers.
6. Firewire interface...(lets get off the usb please).

Ill leave it there for now but Im sure this would be a killer product if it is done right.

 

yes Yes YES! One of my biggest pet peeves...that GRig's software only philosophy leaves itself open to all kinds of nonsense b/c there have to be thousands of different computer/hardware configs out there yielding every imaginable result. Hint to NI: USE THE COMPUTERS FOR THE GRAPHIC INTERFACE AND FOR PATCH EDITING/STORAGE/TRANSFER ONLY!

100% agree.

Of course, this is also predicated on the notion that the software itself is completely engineered, well thought out, and bug proof, before becoming burned into a hardware format. To which I say HA HA HA HARDY HAR HAR! Not holding my breath for THAT!

Maybe Native Instruments has the crazy notion that their current philosophy of releasing incomplete updates to Guitar Rig is a good thing. Personally, it just frustrates and pisses me off, to the point where I'd much rather continue using my current hardware system BECAUSE IT WORKS THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO.

Please, NI, poop or get off the pot, will ya?

 

Cost is a major issue when going from software to hardware. Wait for USB 3.0.

 

daverlee, you're expecting that the new USB 3.0 spec will solve the problems of buggy software, and end users experiencing a myriad of problems due to computer and hardware interfaces? I doubt it.

Personally, I have a rack loaded with about $3000 worth of processing, compression, and a tuner. Would I pay $1000 US for a WORKING, bug free, hardware version of Guitar Rig to replace my rack? You bet your bippie I would. Without hesitation. I might even spend $1500. I have more than that invested in my backup rig. But with the high price tag comes an expectation that the product is actually WORTH the money.

But more to the point, why NOT make a turn-key solution for hardcore/pro users of GR? Is there something wrong with accommodating the top end of the market for serious pros who don't want to spend so much downtime troubleshooting the software/computer bugs and get cracking with sound creation? But that is way ahead of things...NI can't even come out with a new release that is fully functioning according to its own press releases.

Right now, Guitar Rig products are useful in a limited scope. The higher up the power user curve you climb, the less satisfied people are with the product. But what do you expect for $500US? NI and Guitar Rig have an excellent concept going, but it seems clear that they would rather appeal to the masses then truly and completely come out with a product that is well-engineered in a manner that stands the test of time. I've been trying for years to replace my TC Electronic G Force. Even though the technology used by this hardware processor is archaic by today's standards, it still outperforms all but a select few similar processors. I'd just like to see GRig take the plunge and get serious with this software.

 

sorry, I didn't mean to crush the idea. I hate when people do that.
but I didn't say anything about bugs. USB 3.0 will be awesome for Gutiar Rig. 4.8 Gb/s and 150 mA means no more latency issues and better DACs and preamps.

 

I hope NI is considering a hardware version as well. I'd love to have GR4 available on the go. Right now I'd have to invest in a laptop and bring along my audio interface and have to worry about crashes.

 

Why wait for USB 3.0?

We have the technology to do it now. It just needs to be done right.

If we're all going to wait for a new interface we might as well wait for Light Peak.

 

There really is no good reason for all of the dysfunction for the end user. There are lots of reasons that software manufacturers benefit by from the "we'll fix it in the next upgrade" syndrome.

But for the life of me, I cannot figure out why NI will not define in clear terms, specific hardware and computer setups that they KNOW will work, and beyond that, CONFIGURE AND SELL THEM! I would absolutely have preferred a pre-tweaked laptop loaded with GR 4 Pro -Kontrol Edition, turn key, right out of the box. TIME IS WORTH MONEY, especially to professionals who CAN DO all of the tweaking, but would rather not have to spend the time and creativity/productivity zapping energy.

Proper implementation of the software design is another issue altogether.

After a while, as a user, I feel like I'm on some kind of bizarre treadmill.

In the meantime, I lean heavily on my TC Electronic G Force, designed in 1998, and the lowly $150 US Behringer FCB1010 midi board. My needs don't require much in the way of guitar amp sims, and more on sonic quality, versatility (external/midi control), and reliability. GRig has some great ideas and innovations. They just need their execution to come out of the adolescent stage and into adulthood.

 

They should just offer a service where you send them your computer and they get everything working for you.

 

I think your overestimating what NI can accomplish in regards to a service like that.

 

Yes, this is probably beyond NI to perform this service DIRECTLY, but not by proxy. Use the example of a guitar purchase. Most stores that sell guitars have in-house guitar technicians who can tweak an instrument in any way that is necessary in order for that instrument to perform at its best (subjectively). A cheap guitar will never perform as well as a high end expensive guitar made with top notch materials, electronics, hardware and workmanship.

The same SHOULD BE true for this type of software: If you want to putz around on the low end of things, have at it...go nuts. But for serious users willing to pay a premium for superior performance (and reliability), a high-end alternative is the answer. NI/GRig has missed this opportunity as of now, and Fractal Audio, Digidesign Eleven Rack and others will be their choice. Perhaps NI stays clear of this market for the very reason that high-end users ARE demanding...hmmm.

 

Get a rackmount PC running win 7 or a G5, max out the RAM, Intel core i7, separate video card, rackmount screen, solid state hard drive, spend as much as you can. There's your hardware. I promise GR will run flawlessly. If you're too busy to do it yourself, pay your guitar tech to do it.

The average guitarist will only pay about $500 for guitar effects. When you're a business as young (1996) as NI you can't please everyone right away. They do not have the resources to develop there own DSP board. Maybe in another 10 years they will be able to meet the need, but for now they suffice as an operating system based company. Plenty of people have success with stability and easy setup.

my .02

 

Whats with the tone man...no one was talking down to your comments.

"The average guitarist will only pay about $500 for guitar effects."
Did you really think that statement through? Or is your idea of the "average guitarist" someone that just plays guitar for fun. I would say that if you asked most guitarist what they think the "average guitarist" is they would say, its the guitarist thats not famous but out playing gigs and getting payed for it. So, the average guitarist will pay more then $500 just for an amp. Another $1000 or more for a guitar. And lord only knows how much in outboard pedals, especially if he or she needs a few different key guitar tones to choose from. Not every average guitarist has a budget that can afford a personal guitar tech let alone the hardware configuration you describe above. That would be an extremely expensive hardware configuration that is totally unnecessary considering the rack units that are available. NI is in direct competition with other manufacturers of similar products. I think its time they stepped up their game considering you can get the Digidesign 11 Rack for $800. Thats only $400 more then GR.

"When you're a business as young (1996) as NI you can't please everyone right away."
Sure looks like NI is trying really hard to please everyone considering that they now have 5 different versions of GR.

"They do not have the resources to develop there own DSP board."
How do you know this? I wouldn't doubt it if they do. They are in the hardware business. And who says its a law that they have to develop their own?

 

midnightrider...Amen, brother. Amen.

Let's just say that I let my high hopes for Guitar Rig cloud the reality of what Guitar Rig really is, or intends to be.

 

sorry, the tone of my first paragraph didn't translate. If I were a professional touring guitarist - that's what I would do for my hardware, but I can only dream.

I guess I need to explain my thinking on the $500 guitarist. I would assume most guitarists use either all modular fx pedals and an amp, or a floor processor. excluding the amp, the typical pedal board has a drive, delay, mod, wah, and reverb at ~$100 per pedal. The major floor processors by Boss, Digitech, Vox, Line 6, and Zoom were all about $500 when they debuted. I suspect that is also the motivation for GR's price.

Digidesign is a massively successful software and hardware company with an industry standard DAW and top of the line interfaces. They have money and resources. They are what Native Instruments will be in another ten years.

I'm all for a hardware device too, but it's a big request - something that requires a lot of time, money, and tech. It also might compromise the flexibility of GR which I really don't want to lose.

 

ok, daverlee. Philosophically, there is an obvious divide about what Guitar Rig 4 Pro software has done and will do to impact the marketplace.

"I'm all for a hardware device too, but it's a big request - something that requires a lot of time, money, and tech".

Do you really speak for Native Instruments, or is this just your personal opinion? To dismiss the notion of a hardware solution is IMO a missed opportunity, and at worst, a pure and simple cop-out. I wouldn't be barking up this tree if NI had released a Gtr Rig 4 Pro as a complete and bug-free upgrade.

You must recognize that Guitar Rig products are getting serious looks from people who are already in the $1000+ market for FX processing. If NI were to accommodate that part of the market and win fans amongst the high-end power user (as opposed to the $500 worth of footpedals guitarist), then THEY WILL HAVE WON THE BATTLE at ALL LEVELS.

Most of my gripe has to do with new releases (such as Gtr Rig 4 Pro) that are incomplete, buggy, or don't include features that are listed in their own promotional materials. The notion of going the dedicated hardware route FORCES a practical narrowing of the thinking that goes into the product without sacrificing the core principals that brought the product to its inception to begin with, as well as a measure of consensus - that the designers and engineers can agree, at least temporarily, where they need to pull the plug on innovation, and concentrate on a product that has enough reliability and performance to be considered COMPLETE.

...oh well...

 

I'm also pretty frustrated at the incompleteness of GR4 pro. It seems like that update has been in beta testing forever (good thing?). Anyway, I hope they do start thinking about hardware systems - not just for GR but all of their software products. It would be a great investment across the board.

for the record, everything I said is my own opinion based on observation, but sometimes I say stupid things.

 

Cmon guys, NI has focused on the computer software market and thats all right: there are zillions of competitors with poor, average and good hardware out there and if you look at REAL TONE for the pros, they will always buy a truck full of REAL equipment (Bogners, Eventides and all the fancy stuff).

And what do you expect from hardware? It will be outdated in one, two years as "hardware" today means: DSP, processor, displays, a dozen knobs ... and thousands of lines of software coded to that specific hardware.

We should rather be looking forward to the next generation Guitar Rig which can be controlled via a multitouch-screen ...

 

touchscreen +1

 

akay,

you'd like me to believe that the TC Electronics G Force is not a viable piece of hardware in 2009, having been designed and manufactured in 1998? Same for products like the Eventide Eclipse? I beg to differ. These products are designed specifically to withstand obsolescence.

I just want something that meets my needs. On paper, Guitar Rig 4 Pro does this. But that's on paper...otherwise I'd be gigging with it now.