1. Please be aware, the forum will be down on Monday 21st from 15:00 - 17:00 CET while the forum software is updated and Mick drinks cocktails. Thanks in advance for your understanding.
    Dismiss Notice

Harmonic Mixing... Seeing Key Adjustments in the Deck veiw

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions' started by DJ_AJ, Jan 25, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DJ_AJ

    DJ_AJ NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    71
    I use harmonic mixing extensively in Traktor, and I really like being able to instantly read the Key of the loaded track in the deck's view, but when I change the key of that track using the "Key Knob" I would also very much like to be able to see that new key reflected in the deck as well.

    ie: Pitching a track up from "A" +100 to "A#" should now show the track as being in the key of "A#" in the corresponding Deck for easier reference.

    Also, there should be a choice of whether we want to see the changes primarily as sharps or flats or both. I have preferred to sort my entire collection based on using sharps exclusively, instead of flats (ie: Bb = A#). This makes it easier for us to go through and find relative keys very quickly, by not having to search through songs that are tagged as Bb as well as A# to find a good match. You follow?
     
  2. The Assistant

    The Assistant NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    243
    That is a damn good idea! If NI were to implement this the competitors can wave bye bye.
     
  3. lethal_pizzle

    lethal_pizzle NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    10,605
    Yeah, that would be quite cool. I use the camelot system, so a similar thing could apply.
     
  4. buggles

    buggles NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    320
    +1
    this is a great idea
     
  5. DiscoNova

    DiscoNova NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,200
    +1

    And definetly should work with the Camelot scheme (after all - who can remember that "I'm now at Fm, next I can stay at the same, or go to B#m, Cm or A#m, if I want to mix harmonically" when you can just think "I'm now at 4A, next I can stay at the same, or go to 3A, 5A or 4B, if I want to mix harmonically".

    Also, with Camelot numbering, it is rather easy to remember how the changing the Key (with the rotary) works. From 4A, I can arrive at 11A (by going +1) or 9A (by going -1). The change is 7 "steps" to the direction for each "integer" I'm changing the key into. On my personal opinion, changing the key more than +-1.0 is just asking for trouble. Also, if I change it something else than integer amounts, the resulting sound is actually not in any key that is suitable for Harmonic Mixing but rather "in between keys".

    Ok... hopefully that made some sense to anyone... I think I'm not exactly thinking straight today :)
     
  6. brianpkelly

    brianpkelly New Member

    Messages:
    5
    making sense of rotary key values

    i too would very much love it if the new version of traktor pro would make changing the key of a track to a new desired key easier to understand. i also use the camelot wheel system and understand it well but in the middle of unplanned set it would sure be nice if the rotary key knob reflected the alphabetic key rather than an arbitrary number like +1.0 or - 1.0.
    also i wish that under the deck display preferences, there was the option to display the "comment" section of the file as this is where mixedinkey stores the camelot number for all my tracks. how great it would it be if you could look at the deck playing and see what the original camelot number is and then use the rotary key adjustment to change an incoming track to a harmonically compatible key on the fly without having to do complicated key calculations.
    i realize that not everyone uses the camelot system so i would be more than happy if we could at least substitute numbers like +1.0 and -1.0 for actual alphabetic key values.
    thanks for your consideration!
     
  7. marqueemarc

    marqueemarc NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    56
    +1, including the Camelot notation
     
  8. The Assistant

    The Assistant NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    243
    Dood, in MiK 4 you can write key to a "key-tag" so that Traktor can read it and show it in the deck headings :)
     
  9. buggles

    buggles NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    320
    i use rapid evolution and tried mixed in key and both have a problem writing the camelot code and key info together in the key tag. personally i would like to either see one of these programs write the info like so:

    camelot code, key

    or have separate camelot code and key fields which can both be displayed in the deck.

    so that i can alphabetically arrange them by keycode, without writing the keycode to the beginning of the title of the track which would defeat the ability to organize by title alphabetically. this also allows me to know what key it's actually in instead of just what the keycode is. that way i can tell a live musician what key i'm in so they can play accordingly.

    i've managed to use rapid evolution to write the keycode and then the key like i said, but only to the comments field. it took some time to get RE to do this, as the software is a little buggy and it's not entirely clear to me why the settings i use to do this are correct (if anyone's interested i'll post my RE settings). but now i have all of this info in the comments section. is there an actual reason for this limitation? do certain fields create issues when displayed in the deck?

    allow users to put any tag info they want in the deck display. hell, even if you could write camelot and key info to the key field like that i think it would still be nice to use the comments section to display info that might be useful to me beside what key it's in for instance, mixout info.

    with this implemented + updated key jump info like stated before (including camelot info, preferably ahead of the key or in a seperate field) displayed, i would be in heaven.

    camelot mixing is widespread and well established. ni would be wise to give us some of these tid bits now on a stable platform instead of waiting to bog us down with a clunky version of mixed in key thrown or whatever. i love traktor, and maybe this isn't the thread for it, but i just wish they would've released an update to 3 instead of pro. all the while perfecting pro for, well, professional application, before releasing it. i'm not one of those who can't handle the new effects paradigm or whatever, i mean, didn't that happen already when we went from 2 to 3? change it, go ahead, i'm adaptable... as long as it WORKS.

    now, instead, ni has established themselves as a company that says pro when they mean semi-pro. sure, sales were probably great, nice gimmick. but what does word of mouth have to say about it? how does that affect NI's rep? does it really pay off?

    just asking for an update that offers solutions to my needs. i'd rather have a few of these simple features than VST compatibility, animated covers, video support or a set generator or more fx etc...

    (except maybe add a phrase sampler, heh)

    weeeeeeee!
     
  10. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    Honestly you can do this yourself with very simple math, Im not saying its not a good idea but when your trying not to clash tracks or chords in tracks there is not that many choices from a harmonic standpoint. Well at least with the camelot system.

    the camelot system does work and doesnt get much simpler IMO. If your plus 1 in pitch the key is really the same, even plus 2.

    Look on the mixed in key website it talks about the plus or minus 3% rule and the plus or minus 6% rule. IF your mixing plus 10 or 15 there is a good chance your tracks will sound rather strange anyway and not work harmonically due to time stretching artifacts.

    I agree the comment would be nice to see in the deck view +1!
     
  11. The Assistant

    The Assistant NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    243
    I don't know why it won't work for you guys.. but it does for me.

    In MiK you have to tick off "Update Custom InitialKey tag"

    Camelot key shows up in the deck headings, no problem at all
     
  12. lethal_pizzle

    lethal_pizzle NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    10,605
    Yeah you can get Mixed in Key to write to your key tag and display it on the deck, that is what I do which is pretty nifty. Only problem is the key tag only holds 3 characters, so if Mixed in Key reports split keys then only the first one shows up...
     
  13. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    you can manually add more characters, because I added the camelot number and the actual key.
     
  14. lethal_pizzle

    lethal_pizzle NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    10,605
    Didn't know that, cheers!
     
  15. buggles

    buggles NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    320
    i know you can add the camelot 'key', i know you can add the actual key, and i know you can manually add whichever one isn't there. but for 2,000 tracks it would be nice to automatically have both written to the key tag. as far as i know the only way to automatically get both is to the comments tag with RE.

    As i recall, when i came to the settings i use (this was a while ago), the RE software is sort of buggy and wouldn't write both the code and key the way i wanted into one tag UNLESS:

    You tell it to 'write key info to comments' and NOT to write to the key field at all and don't ask it to write to the 'start key' and 'end key' tags (exclusive RE tags) you still get both in the 'comments' tag in the end so no worries. I also uncheck 'use key codes instead of keys' and i use the 'automatic' tag writer setting. You need to have the key and key code fields showing in the browser but not the comments field. Then when you select your group of tracks to analyse, right click on them (don't try to use the control key and a one button mouse or else on a mac you'll only get to do this to 1 track - small glitch but you need a 2 button mouse) and go to analyze key. then right click and write tags. You'll now see the 1st and 2nd key code in the 'key code' field and the corresponding keys in the 'key' field. Accidentally do it twice and you'll have the info twice in the 'comments' tag - i found out the hard way.
    When you import into traktor the start and end key and code will now be in the comments tag.

    If anyone has a better way to write tags in RE (i bought and didn't like MIK after trying RE) i'm all ears.

    wouldn't it just be nice if i could display the comments?
    best thing IMHO is a new camelot code tag and the ability to write both the camelot tag and the key tag at the same time. and then allow traktor to read key and camelot tags (taking both MIK and RE tag writing into consideration) and allow both to be displayed in the decks.

    Rapid evolution will write what key your track is in at the end of the file as well as the beginning for each track if there is a difference. So as a result i have both the start and end key code a comma and then the start and end actual key for every track in my comments field.
     
  16. fourG

    fourG New Member

    Messages:
    3
     
  17. NReek

    NReek NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,218
    maybe first of all Traktor should include the key analysis as part of the track analysis it does currently... don't you think?
     
  18. Tocamac

    Tocamac Forum Member

    Messages:
    44
    Seconded. ;)
     
  19. dj-highdef

    dj-highdef Forum Member

    Messages:
    103
    If am getting this correcty. it would almost work like the bpm display

    example:

    I am at 128bpm
    I am at 1a

    when moving the pitch up/down the new key along with the bpm will be changed...

    Damn that would be sick!
     
  20. Rudi-J

    Rudi-J NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    175
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.