Help: 5 stereo with 6 mono output patch

Hi Everyone.

I'm trying to configure KONTAKT 2 to be able to use it as a multiple audio output sound module (3 stereo instrument ;6 mono instruments either for bass or guitar or a multi-track drumset; 2 stereo FX returns. Total of 16 audio outputs from KONTAKT back to my host DAWs (Both SONAR 5 or PT LE 7...)

After searching this forum, I found a post explaining how to modify Kontak 2's default output patch and proceeded as told, but I am still not getting the complete patch I want...

Basically, I'm having trouble to manage MONO outputs from KONTAKT back to my host DAW


My desired audio output patch from Kontakt to my host sequencer would be:

Host audio inputs 1-2 = kontakt st.1 / main out
Host audio inputs 3-4 = Kontakt St.2 (plugin outs 3-4)
Host audio inputs 5-6 = Kontakt St.3 (plugin outs 5-6)
Host audio input 7 = Kontakt plugin output 7
Host audio input 8 = Kontakt plugin output 8
Host audio input 9 = Kontakt plugin output 9
Host audio input 10 = Kontakt plugin output 10
Host audio input 11 = Kontakt plugin output 11
Host audio input 12 = Kontakt plugin output 12
Host audio inputs 13-14 = Kontakt aux 1 to plugin outputs 13-14
Host audio inputs 15-16 = Kontakt aux 2 to plugin outputs 15-16

The problem is: In SONAR for instance, Kontakt's available audio outputs are shown like this:

Primary out
out 3-4
out 5-6
out 7
out 9
out 11
aux 1
aux 2
aux 3
Unassigned 1
Unassigned 3
Unassigned 5
Unassigned 7
Unassigned 9
Unassigned 11

So, i'm having trouble to configure outputs 8-10-12 and I am not sure what to do with the UNASSIGNED ones yet...

I tried converting SONAR's stereo tracks to mono tracks in order to patch the EVEN audio returns form KONTAKT and tried to pan 2 Kontakt instruments in the same stereo output (i.e a bass instrument panned left in output 9-10 AND a gtr instrument panned right in the same output 9-10...) The trouble is I have to split my rendered stereo track (so a wav file...) to 2 mono tracks afterwards in order to really be multi-track ... there's got to be another way to do this!

Can anybody help? When I'm done i'll gladly post a "template" on the forum for others to download.


Lastly, just one question regarding kontakt 2's MIDI input ports:


Kontakt shows Only one MIDI in port from SONAR... Is there a way to use all 4 MIDI input ports from a host like SONAR or PT? Does this has something to do with the VstI /Dxi protocol differences?

Thanks!

 

Read This:

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61770

 

Hi Yummay,

By now you either know or should know that Sonar really sucks when it comes to mono tracks. Depending on exactly what you want to do there are workarounds but it takes a lot of trial and error along with downgradeing your expectations to get what you want. In your case there may not be any real fixes.

One thing I would like to mention (I'm quite sure you already know this) is that if you're working with a single instrument like a set of dums and want to send them to separate ouputs you need to do it on a Group by Group basis with the Amplifier outputs. However, then you can't use separate Aux sends. The way around this is to assign a "Send Effect" in the "Group Insert Fx" that goes to the "Instrument Send Fx". I've done this with most all my drums and it works great although it takes a little more CPU.

T.S.

 

Hi T.S.

Yes, I am starting to experience SONAR's difficulty to manage certain mono tracks. I've now setup K2 with Pro Tools LE without any major problems... every output of the plugin (mono and stereo) are just where they're supposed to be...

And thanks for your infos on a group-by-group basis for a drum instrument. I was aware of this only because i've read something about that on this forum.

I am now ready to actually work on this topic now that I could complete my perfect setup with Pro Tools... and obtain a "not to bad" setup with SONAR...

Now I think that, even if I wanted to post on this forum a MULTI that's using my new output patch, it would not be of any use to other users here as they would have to configure themselves their own output "map" within K2, right?

Cheers

 

I would be a happy guinea pig! Let me at it!
I have DFHS working in Sonar and can't make that setup work with K2. Please post - Thanks alot, Shep

 

Hi Yummay,

Probably not, I think the output configuration is a setup by setup basis but I'm not absolutely sure of this. What a lot of K2 users do includeing my self is create their own VSTi defaults (outputs_vst.cfg). K2 already provides an 8 and 16 output default but they're not exactly the way I want them so I made my own 4, 8, 12, & 16 output defaults. However, I was carefull to save the originals in a separate forlder first.

Hi Shep, I'm assumeing you're asking how to setup the DFHS in K2. Also, since I don't have DFHS I'm not sure how to load that into K2 but again, I'm assumeing that you do. Are you importing it or loading it manually?

The important thing to know is that the samples for each part of the "kit" need to be in their own separate Groups. The kik in one group, Toms in another, Snare another, ect., etc.. Of course it's wise to name the Groups accordingly, "Kik", "Snare", "Toms", etc. Basically any part of the kit that you want a slightly different effect on will have to be in it's own group. Depending on how you load the kit, you may have to assign the samples to their respective Groups manually in the Mapping Editor and I'm assumeing you know how to do this.

Once you get the samples and groups set up properly you now have the means to assign each group to any output you want in the Amplifier modual. Be sure you have "Edit All Groups" off and click on each individual group you want to assign differently. Then go to the Amplifier modual and click on the "Output" menu where you can select any of the outputs.

You also have the "Group Insert Fx" where you can select and setup different effects for each group.

Some effects can't be loaded in the "Group Insert Fx" like reverb or convolution. To get around this you can assign the Verb in the "Instrument Insert Fx" modual and then use a "Send" effect in the "Group Insert Fx" to send an individual group signal to the Verb. A word of WARNING, turn down you monitors while setting it up because untill you get it setup properly some dasturdly things can happen.

Hope this helps.:S

T.S.

 

Actually, K2 in Sonar 6. See my other pst, my answer to the problem is there. Thanks, you did help me to realize I can save output configs! BUT need to know how to both save and reload only the output_cfg file though... Take care, Shep

 

Ah! I was slowly getting to the same conclusion regarding saving multiple output configs. Thanks, i'll give it a try (that means in my case locating the CFG files for K2's DXI, VstI and RTAS instances I guess...)

Cheers

 

I found the 3 in K2, but how do you save or load just that file?

 

If I understand correctly what T.S is talking about, I'm guessing something like:

1- first, make a backup copy of these original CFG files in another folder

2- Insert an instance of K2 in a SONAR project. (say Kontakt2_8out)

3- Configure your outputs and then hit "make default"

4- Close K2 and project

5- In your windows / mac explorer, go to the relevant folder

6- rename the CFG file to something like Outputs_VST_32.cfg for instance (not sure about that...)

7- After tweaking your customized CFG files, you can put back the backup you made of the original CFG back in their original folder.

I guess you should then have 3 "factory" CFG files + x number of customized CFG files available.

What do you think T.S ? I got it or not? ;-)

I have not tried this yet, so careful... I'll try it tomorrow.

Cheers

 

How would you load that file into a K2 multi that has the original one, so it wouldn't have to be configured? I can't see the cfg file in the Sonar project it's in either...Thanks man, Shep

 

Hi Yummay,

Right, I made a folder and called it something like "Outputs_VST_cfg (Org) TS". I put TS on the end so that I could instantly recognize that I made the folder.

Right.

Probably a good idea so that when you reopen Sonar the outputs should show up properly.

This confuses me some, I don't think you want to rename the Output_cfg files because I don't think K2 will find them. I left mine as they were.

For the same reason as above, I don't think you want to put the original files back because they would replace your changes. I realize if you've renamed your customized files they won't be replaced but for the reasons I mention above I don't think you should do that. You would only put the backups back in if you want to go back to the original factory defaults.

I think the only cfg files K2 will look for or use are "Outputs_vst.cfg", "Outputs_vst_8.cfg", and "Outputs_vst_16.cfg". Of course there are the other versions, DXI, etc., I only use the VSTi versions.

If and when you want to bring back the original defaults then simply make another folder for your customized files.

I'm not absolutely posititive about all of this but I think I'm correct for the most part.:|

T.S.

 

If you want to save different output configurations with K2
simply save as "multi" without any instrument. Later, when you will import *.nkm files that you previously saved it will ask you if you want to replace multi. Say yes.

 

That didn't work for me. I dumped all the samples from the multi, saved the .nkm file as '9 stereo outputs.nkm'. Loaded a kit that has standard out config, went back to load, selected '9 outputs.nkm', replace multi? - yes - it did, all the samples ,too.
Great in theory, but... Any other things I could try?

 

NO! You have to save a multi without any instrument in it. Not with an instrument with dumped samples. You have some factory multi in K2 library/ 15 - multis/ 02 - Output configuration. But you can make your own.
You have first to load a multi and then to load an instrument in that multi. And then assign the instrument to the output and midi channel you wish.

http://www.creativepoint-music.com/exemple/Output_Configurations.rar

Here are some examples of multi coming with K2

 

Thanks Catalin Enache!

Simple as a multi? I'll try this today.

 

I did it that way, just didn't word it right. I have accomplished this now. I simply load my 9 stereo output,nkm multi( has no instruments, 9 stereo outs) then pick the kit I want to replace the outputconfig of, when it says replace muti - no. Change each instrument out to the one I wish it to use, done.
You've been alot of help Catalin, i really appreciste yoou sticking with us through this! Take care, Shep