Heres My Problem With Kontakt2

ok im not gonna pussyfoot around the problem so here goes....

i dont own kontakt 2 yet as im still saving up for it but last night i was at a friends studio in dc they mainly use sonar and a bit of cubase so i had a chance to play with it a bit...

so heres the problem basically i was under the impression that this was an upgrade not a new revamp of the old sampler..

see we have alot of tracks made with kontakt 1.5 where the name of that vsti was (kontakt.dll) now if u wanna use kontakt2 on the songs you have that were using kontakt1 youll run into a real problem...

since the name of the vsti dll has changed to (kontakt2.dll) you sort of have to start from scratch with your sample kits you would have to remember all the settings from the 10+ channels where they were routed what fx they had and tons of other level stuff..

cause when u unload k1 it will delete all those channels in cubase then you would have to load k2 and recreate all those individual k1 channel settings you had which could take weeks depending on how much stuff you had tweaked....

basically since the vsti dll was renamed to kontakt2.dll i cant figure out a way to have my old songs that were using kontakt1.5 to use k2

from what ive seen k2 is incredible and worth every penny for new songs but for people who wanna use k2 in the songs that were using k1.5

what can we do??????does anyone have a workaround??

 

you might be able to make a copy of the Kontakt2.dll file and rename it to kontakt.dll. It might work, but it might also load and then fail because the i/o and library loading implementation may be different. If you were smart, you make a copy of the old kontakt 1.5 version and move it out of the directory before you try it. Again, i don't know if this will work, but it's worth a try. Oh, you might also be able to create a shortcut for kontakt2.dll and rename the shortcut to kontakt.dll. Again, make a backup first. Good luck and post back if either solution works, i'm sure others might like to know.

 

well we actually tried that last night but it didnt work cubase and sonar would actually stop seeing the kontakt.dll altogether so that ideas pretty much out unless any1 has some other way to do it??

 

I don't know about VSTi's ,but I use it as an AudioUnit within logic and I still have Kontakt1 showing up in the instrument list and all old songs load perfectly fine with Kontakt1.5

Strange that you you don't have K1 anymore . Does the K2 installer delete the K1 version for VSTi's and not for AU's ? Maybe you can just re)install K1 again from the original install disk ?

 

i think you misread somewhere cause you have my dilemma all wrong..

it doesnt delete k1 but if you were using a project with k1.5 and wanted to continue the same project but with k2 your gonna run into hours of frustration just for the simple fact that ni renamed the dll (Kontakt2.dll)

so you would have to start all over on your kits...

unless theres a fix for this somehow or a conversion prog or a renamed update i cant imagine buying k2.....

im actually used to this since ni has renamed all other vsti's for example... absynth1.dll-absynth2.dll-absynth3.dll

which wasnt a problem cause it was only 1 channel in whatever song you were working on...

but with th4e sampler it can be up to 16 channels which are all custom to your song that you would he to reduplicate...do u get me now?

i cant believe most dont find this interesting its a song killer..

 

Yes this has to be one of the most annoying things about all native Instrument software. Why on earth. when you bought an upgrade. would you want what you are upgrading not to load in the new version. It would be like upgrading to Nuendo 3 but not being able to open Nuendo 2 projects without totally rebuilding them. Totally retarded way of handling it. If a person has problems with Kontakt 2 they could simply reinstall version 1. No other plugin manufacturer I know of handles it this way.

Maybe there are some registry hacks one could use.

 

it's better that way

Imagine the uproar if they did overlay the .dll and somebody's project got screwed up or even the sound engine changes subtly, no thanks. If it worked that way I'd be scared to death to apply any updates. Since NI is treating these upgrades as seperate product I know I can load them up without fear for the safety of the in-progress stuff.

 

Re: it's better that way

So you would rather totally rebuild a mix rather than make a simple backup copy of your song file before upgrading? hehe ok suit yourself

 

Re: Re: it's better that way

The only reason you would need to use K2 in place of K1 in a pre completed mix is if you wanted to use some features built into K2. Adding Convo etc, would mean all your settings in K1 would be useless. Basically you would need to rebuild and mix anyways.

I like knowing that any files I have used 1.x on will open and sound the same at anytime. You could not guarantee that if every upgrade wiped out the last version.

Just my $0.02

CH

 

Re: Re: Re: it's better that way

I like knowing that any files I have used 1.x on will open and sound the same at anytime

thats the problem they dont u have to rebuild them dont u get this??

all the settings in k1 would be useless???this i definitely dont get hopefully u can explain more...

what u gonna do when kontakt 3 comes out???scrap all your kontakt 2 unfinished songs cause ni renamed the dll to (kontakt3.dll)???

 

Re: Re: Re: it's better that way

What about all the plugs and mix settings loaded on the vsti channels in your host? That's what we are talking about. There are some nice features in Kontakt 2 and I would like to get it for sure. There is no reason basic settings can be retained, ie, instruments loaded, volume, pan. outputs. This is simple stuff any sampler should be able to do consistently from version to version. Adding convo? That's neither here nor there. What about 5 years from now when Kontak 7 is out. Are you telling me I have to manage and keep track of 7 different versions just to load old songs (now where was that Kontakt 4 installer, it was here somewhere). It's a huge hassle I tell you. Please review my Nuendo 2-->3 analogy.

I have been using this technology for almost 7 years now and I have never once run into the problem you have described and if something did screw up I always simply rolled back to the last version.


my 3 cents

 

and another point, if one can't use Kontakt 2 for projects you are working on what would be the point of even buying it in the first place.

How about a compromise? Upon install, how about an option to overwrite or append the kontakt 1 dll.

 

I agree that having all the different versions in play is a concern. I went through a migration a few months ago and it was no fun. So yes I would like to see more attention paid to automated migration, backwards compatibility, etc. Having said that, I also understand that the software business model relies on delivering innovative new products and everyone has the basic requirement to be able to install new products with 100% certainty that you're not going to screw up what you've been working on for the last few years. So I'll install K2 but I am not going to worry about removing K1 for the time being.

Of course my opinion may be slightly skewed since I bought into Komplete Care program. If I had to choose between Reaktor 5 and automated upgrade it's no contest

 

Perhaps I have an answer to your problem.

Why not open your existing projects using Kontakt 1.5 then save everything as a multi.

Than replace Kontakt 1.5 in the existing project with Kontakt 2 and open the multi into the new version.

As always, before you do this, save a backup copy of your existing project incase something does not go well.

Dave

 

thanks for the tip, but that wouldn't only alleviate small part of the work, which would be totally reloading mix settings in your host.

 

well ill explain why surely this was everyones first idea but the problem gets even worst from here..

keep in mind you have atleast 10+ some pros probably even run 2 instances of kontakt so your talking 20+ channels with individual eq/fx/routing/levels which is only saved in your sequencer not your vsti..

next when u unload kontakt 1.5 from your seq it will erase all those channels that were being used thus when u load k2 with that same multi kit you will lose all individual channel settings they had in your seq not in your kontakt2...

a k1 kit should load np on k2 but if u were using it as a vsti you lose alot of work....


from what ive seen k2 is an amazing new song builder but at the same time an old song killer...till a workaround arises

 

I think this could be more a gripe with your sequencer then. I'm a Sonar guy, to upgrade on a single project basis, I would bring up a Kontakt 2 instance concurrent with the older version and then you would switch the outputs on the Sonar tracks to K2 before deleting K1. In Sonar even if you delete a DXI the tracks with effects would remain.

 

that's cool! Too bad Sonar is lacking in so many other departmets though.

 

Sorry to spoil the fun guys , but what's the problem here ?

NI is giving us the choice : use the old K1.5 or the new K2 and I think that is great !

Why would you want to rebuild a complete and complex K1.5 setup into K2 ? Only really needed for those parts that you want to use the new features on .
Say you want the convolution verb on the snare , then take only the snare to K2 and leave the rest , in very much the same way you want to try to replace that snare by a snare from eg. Battery

btw : I don't know what sequencer you're on , but I'm on Logic and -just like sonar- you can replace instruments without deleteing instrument channels and FX settings .
A good somution as mentioned above would be : save K1.5 as a multi : load it into K2 and with a few minor tweaks you should be going.

And there's no need for Sonar-bashing , Logic-bashing or any other kind of bashing really .....

this help is offered you with kind regards

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: it's better that way

I would do the same as I do for all my tools, complete the project with the tools I started them with , then upgrade. If the tools were so bad that I deemed in necessary to upgrade mid way, I would not use them in the first place.

CH