Hertz Oscillator

Just so we talk the same language here is an ensemble and an mp3 file to demo what seems to work and displays what Wolfram plots:

 

That just sounds too clean, there are barely any harmonics added to the sin so its not really what comes to mind when I think of FM sounds. There has got to be a better way to do this to get results similar to the one I posted in the soundcloud. For some reason I thought that this type of patch would be the way to go but it couldn't sound any further.

 

This has an aliasing osc someone did, maybe worth checking https://co.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=userlibrary&type=0&ulbr=1&plview=detail&patchid=10102

Operator is my #1 reason to be jealous of Live users, It's the one thing from live I would want as a VST. I would be quite excited to see a vision of it realized in Reaktor.

 

more investigation leads me to believe that the tone knob simply increases the amp of the carriers by up to 24dB. seems to work pretty well even bandwidth limited, thanks for the suggestions tho

 

Sounds georgeous.
The SimpleFM patch in Max/MSP uses a pretty lo-fi oscillator (a 512 wavetable of a sine wave with linear interpolation if memory serves me right) the standard Reaktor sine oscillator is pretty clean, doesnt have enough bite for the kind of sound you are after.
I might be able to knock something together, there's a few bits lying around on my harddrive.

 

Please do! Anything moderately similar would be an improvement over nothing close at all.

 

@Lawrence Ketchin I just noticed you were behind the Heishere remake I had linked to a couple posts up. Good job, that thing sounds great.

 

FM4 with the ratio's set to 0 and only the Fixed Frequency controls being used gets me a lot closer.

I modified FM4 a bit, I took out 2 ops and I traded the Fix Freq controls for knobs and figured that the 0-24 envelope values in the max example worked out to 0-240 in Reaktor so thats what I changed the "FM Source 2" values to, with lots of steps for smooth modulation via the breakpoint envelopes.

I think the patch setup is almost the same so the difference in sound between Reaktor and maxmsp in this side by side comparison http://soundcloud.com/remote-manipulator-system/reaktor-then-max-car135-mod369 really highlights the vast difference in sound quality (if I set up the patch correctly)

Maybe someone can help me polish it up some more by modifying or finding a better oscillator or something.

 

Sorry i havent replied earlier, been busy at work. Ive been experimenting a bit but cant seem to get anywhere near your example from Max. I wonder whats going on in that patch..

 

It has none of the character but your example still is a pretty neat FM synth.

When I started thinking about this I felt dumb that I couldn't knock it up right quick myself because I thought it was supposed to be based on simple math. There must be some black magic going on behind the iron curtain of max.

 

finally took a look at the max/msp tutorial

the problem could be that the max patch you posted is creating freqs well above the nyquist (over the sampling rate even). an improper wrap function in the wavetable clock might cause the problem... if you have a look at the simpleFM~ insides, it multiplies the 'harmonicity' by 'carrier', which for the given values is over 49KHz.

also often the FM is greater than the carrier frequency which again gets into being able to play thru the waveform backwards, which i'm almost positive is what "should" happen at negative freqs.

i didn't want to check for erros, but i replaced the ramp clock with the one i made for the operator clone which is capable of playing any frequency. i think it sounds quite a bit cleaner and much closer to what you're looking for, take a look

 

here's a sound sample at the freqs you posted.

btw, i ripped all of the operator waveforms and built a wavetable for them in the last couple days, things are progressing nicely

 

So in other words you think that timbre is the result of unique-to-max high frequency handling? That would make good sense and knowing that I could let the white rabit go for awhile. Your edit of that patch does sound nice and clean though.

Now that I have FM on the mind I am super interested in your operator clone. Did the ARKUL group ever work something out? I am dieing to check out your new stuff

 

ARKUL is lumbering forward, slowly. to be honest i'll probably start a blog before it happens. when i do i'll obviously post it here so i can get at least *some* traffic

on FM - no i don't think it's a unique to max sound, i think the last example i posted should be able to make something very similar if properly set up (to make the .mp3 i deleted the freq inputs and just put constants in their place).

it's certainly true that nothing in reaktor is pre-configured for this kind of FM which is a shame. i think core can do it it's just a matter of understanding exactly what is going on...

hmm i just noticed i left some stuff in that upload i meant to delete (namely that ugly looking 'mult' knob and the part of the structure surrounding it which is completely unnecessary and only there because i misunderstood the structure), maybe i'll try to fix it up some more. i also am noticing that it sounds nicer now without interpolating, which doesn't surprise me as i suppose that's where the metallic nature of the sound comes in.

 

While Reaktor is praised for having a high quality sound compared to some of the other graphical programming environments Its also too bad Reaktor doesn't have more quality and interpolation settings per module to turn down the performance and switch on that awesome trashy 80's/90's aliasing and low sound quality.

Better isn't always better!

 

i tried some more to work this out but it still doesn't sound like the patch you posted :/

there must be some aspect of that patch that's just not working properly or i'm understanding incorrectly.it's possible the linear interpolation i was using is just not good enough, maybe i can find another method.

 

Its the Keyser Söze of FM.

 

Okay now we're getting somewhere. I removed the wavetable oscillators (even though that's technically what's going on in the max patch) and replaced them with a sine LFO and made sure to modulo the incoming freq to both oscillators (never allowing them above the sample rate). to my surprise this worked pretty well, check it out. not sure what else to do but it sounds pretty close now.

 

Wow! Its amazing. Of course the goal was never to fully replicate the sound but to capture the essence and I think you nailed it really good. Thanks!

 

On second thought, the tuning on this seems broken somehow. Values don't seem to make the sounds they should, dialing through the frequencies reminds me of scrolling through AM radio with lots of random feedback and inconsistent sounds, its especially hard to find a bass sound..