hissing/noise issues

i bought the audio kontrol 1 about a month ago to use as my AI for my pc. i use ableton live and massive (mostly) to produce dnb and some electro with a friend of mine but i'm also a guitarist so i was glad that the kontrol came with guitar rig 4 essential.

i know this isn't the full product and i've been debating weather i should upgrade to the full one for an extra 99 bucks or whatever. i've got some semi-decent tones from it just by screwing around with it but there's one thing holding me back.

a lot of the patches i use, weather mild crunch to screaming leads have a fairly large amount of hiss. when the guitar is up full volume and not playing anything though (on the actual guitar) it's still deadly silent.

but when you stop playing or just touch the strings or whatever there is this hissing which is so annoying. i don't think it's any other software on the pc and it's not my guitar. i'm just running a lead from my guitar straight into the kontrol and straight into the pc.

i've tried using the noise gate and compressor and stuff but no matter how i tweak them i can't seem to just get a nice, quiet tone. i understand other people have this issue too. is it solved/better to deal with in guitar rig 4 pro?

 

What are the input level meters reading on Guitar Rig at the Global Header? Also, when you talk about using the "noise gate" do you mean the Noise Gate that is part of the Global Header, or are you using the Noise Gate component which is one of the "Volume Effects"? Please refer to the GR4 Components Reference and Application Reference.

Generally speaking, whenever a high gain amp or front end distortion pedal is used, you'll get some inherent noise. It sounds to me like the Noise Gate in the Global header is engaged.

Advice: strip out EVERYTHING activated in the software preset (Global Header Noise Gate, Output Limiter, etc.) and any components and start from scratch to make sure that you have a proper gain structure. Then re-build your sounds from there.

Let us know how you make out.

 

The AK1 one has LEDs to indicate clipping. Plug your guitar in and start banging away. Like, literally abuse the guitar to produce the loudest noise you can. While you do that, turn up input volume. When the LED goes red, bring it down just a bit to keep it as hot as possible without clipping.

If your input is on very low levels and you're manually increasing gain from your DAW and Guitar Rig, you're also gaining up on the hiss that's always there. This can be eliminated with proper gainstaging (as explained above).

You might think it's not your guitar because you can't remember that hiss being so prominent with a guitar amp at your rehearsal room or something, but some wire may have come loose in the guitar since then or maybe your amp kills some of the hiss. Try another guitar with everything turned up and see if that helps.

edit: are your pickups single coil? Any fluorescent tube lamps in the room? Those are both in the business of introducing all sorts of unwanted noise.

 

It's usually from whatever amp model you are using. Real amps make a lot of hiss too, especially with distortion on as well. I can usually get rid of a lot of noise in GR just by turning down the gain on the amp,which is usually up full.

 

thanks for the replies guys.

i use the "limit" option in GR essential which, from what i can see, stops the output ever reaching the red and clipping in GR no matter how loud you turn things up.

when i say noise gate, i mean the component found in GR.

my guitar is wired up properly, i can guarantee you that 100%. i've rewired the entire guitar myself when i replaced all the pots and pickups (it's an HSH setup). it's also shielded properly.

no fluorescent lights in the room.

i don't think the problem is something i'm doing "wrong" or something that is faulty. i think it has to do with setting up racks properly in GR and using compressors and gates and limiters are all that stuff.

what's the general rule with setting up chains of stuff in GR? what comes first etc.

 

ok. If you're gain stages are proper, and Guitar Rig is seeing optimum input levels, then what you're hearing is just the residual noise from whatever amps and stomp pedals you're using, and without a doubt they can be very noisy depending on how they are set.

I'm pretty sure if you study the factory presets you'll get an idea of how most of the sound designers set things up in Guitar Rig to pretty much mimic what they would do in real life, although one of the interesting things about Guitar Rig is that you can "break all the rules" if you want to, and you also can keep stacking up amps and effects to you heart's content until you run out of computer processing power, which is something most people wouldn't normally attempt, primarily due to the fact that most people don't own more than a couple of amps, a handful of stomps and maybe a rack effect or 2. Guitar Rig allows for massive amounts of extreme experimentation if you care to go there....I digress.

What kind of music do you like? What are some of the presets that are noisy? Can you take a screen shot of your virtual rack, or if it is a stock preset, let us know which one(s) so others can weigh in as to their evaluation of the "noisiness" and possible remedies?

There are a lot of users here on this forum who are willing to swap presets that they've made, or try yours out so you can compare results, and there are a lot of different opinions, but all very good information. Or, perhaps you could post some audio clips of the noise when you are playing and when you stop playing. This way, others could let you know if they think this is "normal" noise.

 

here's a little clip of two patches from guitar rig. the first one is me trying to show the hissing and volume dipping at lower volumes and the second is me trying to show the background hissing on "alternative crunch" when playing quieter. it's as if there is a noise oscillator on in the background like in massive that you cant turn off.

http://soundcloud.com/bruteproductions/untitled

here's a pic of the "lead 1" patch.

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/8954/capturemu.jpg

the problem obviously gets worse when you put an EQ and compressor on it. the nose gate in guitar rig seems to do nothing but act as a simple limiter, doesn't actually remove any hissing.

 

Now that you mentioned Alternative Crunch I thought I'd give it a try on my HSH Ibanez. I get the exact same hiss you do actually if I just subtly pick around. Just like in your sample, it's actually quite noticeable when the sustain is about to die but the limiter hasn't kicked in yet. If the only thing audible in certain parts of a song would be a soloed guitar like that, the hiss would totally kill any illusion of acceptable production values. Once you hear it, you can't unhear it

The genre I'm currently working in has somewhat prevented me from noticing that hiss before:
http://soundcloud.com/leo-3-1/my-idea-of-a-rockin-track

 

your link is dead man.

yeah, i'm halfway recording a song myself and i'm up to a bit where there will be like 4 bars of just guitar playing and it gets kind of ruined with all this hissing in the background.

i also don't like how for some reason, when you play softly or with big dynamics (aggressive blues playing contrasted with quieter notes) the quieter notes don't get as much volume as they would if you played through an actual amp or just acoustically. guitar rig feels like it has an inbuilt noise gate which you can't see or tweak.

 

Well, now my song's public. Anyway have you tried any of the sounds that have country and/or classic in them? Might have a little less of that inherent gain hiss thing in them. Or maybe try another VST like Amplitube and see if it sounds any better?

 

hey,

i don't wanna try and change the direction of the thread, but here's my observation. i've struggled with the fizz thing for long... and finally understood how to build a tone (with proper gain-staging) to get the gain and the tightness yet close to no noticeable fizz.

i just heard your tone sample, the tone knob in your skreamer is full treble, the tone knob in your gratifier is full treble, and then you have and EQ pushing up the 5-8k freq range.. what do you expect if not the hear ugly untamed hiss....?

you have to understand the real tube amps hiss, burp and fart too, if you blow up all the wrong frequencies, you might even be able to make an amp sound like ****..

in my experience, jim fist is always right in these matters. follow his thing, look for presets, see how they build their tones, work with gain very closely, here what you can do... choose your amp and work with it's controls to get the best possible tone for your use using only the amp's gain and tone controls. when you have that right, then put a distortion (skreamer) behind it and boost it to taste. if you like treble, use the treble booster. remember, the knob controls on amps and distortion boxes work best when there's headroom in the tone. if your gains are all on 10, moving tone control knobs might not show any audible result.

however, if your hiss thingy is a technical fault (guitar/cable/interface/bad karma) i don't have much of a solution except to take your preset to a friends computer and try it with his computer/interface/guitar/cable. even his karma might help.. ;D

 

Groovestick,

I agree with Kabir in that you should expect noise/hiss with the Tube Skreamer/Gratifier/EQ boosts you have going on in the treble range. In fact, I'm actually pretty impressed that it is not MORE NOISY considering all the settings.

Looking at the image you posted, it appears that in the HEADER (between the IN and OUT controls at the very top of the GUI window) you have the GATE enable. Apologies if you are aware of this, but if not, this might explain the "phantom noise gate" issue you reference.

Regarding this, there are many things at play here, and first and foremost is the quality and specifications of the hardware audio interface you're using. As the saying goes, you get what you pay for. I'll bet that an Apogee or RME high end interface will sound a bit better, and with more dynamic range and headroom, than any audio I/O that cost under $300US. But beyond that, we have to realize that Guitar Rig 4 software DOES have limitations. After all, it IS a $199US piece of software, and we expect it to flawlessly emulate an arsenal of amplifiers which, when all added together, cost in the many tens of thousands if not more. So, long story short, if you want the BEST performance out of Guitar Rig software, be prepared to spend a lot of time discussing with others, experimenting, and let's not forget SPENDING the $$$ for high end audiophile quality audio conversion.

IMO, Guitar Rig is definitely not perfect, but it is a great piece of software for the $$.

 

all software amps do this. there is no way around it other than buying a "you know what".