Host Transport Control doesn't work with Komplete Kontrol MK2 due to NI removing MCU support

Discussion in 'KOMPLETE KONTROL SERIES' started by HammyHavoc, May 20, 2018.

  1. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    682
    As the title of the thread states: Host Transport Control is broken in PreSonus Studio One with Komplete Kontrol MK2.

    Works fine with MK1, I plug the MK2 in, no cigar.

    Threads/posts for reference:
    Issue is present on both Windows 10 and macOS.

    As someone heavily invested into NI with Komplete Kontrol MK2, Maschine MK3, Komplete, countless NKS plugins, this is infuriating to actually go backwards in workflow after sinking a grand into the latest generation of hardware, especially considering the previous generation works with Studio One.

    In an ideal world, this should be rectified ASAP to restore expected functionality.
     
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  2. Adil @ NI

    Adil @ NI KOMPLETE TEAM NI Team

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    390
    Hello,

    Thank you for your post. As you have observed, MCU transport control is available from Komplete Kontrol MK1, but is not currently implemented for MK2 keyboards. This topic is in our backlog, and we are looking into MCU support vs alternative solutions that would offer greater stability.

    Best,
    Adil
     
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  3. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    682
    Hi Adil,

    Thanks for your reply; what kind of timescale are we looking at here? Given that the products were released in October, and it's now late May, and I've had these since April and have invested a further thousand pounds into NI's products, it would be good to be able to use the products for what the marketing implies. I'm not happy about this in the slightest, this is a complete downgrade on the previous generation of products in terms usability; this doesn't do what it is implied by the marketing.
     
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  4. bobbybland

    bobbybland NI Product Owner

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    27
    I've got to echo these comments. Studio one needs some serious support from NI. Longtime user of NI products as well as Presonus, they are not such a new kid on the block anymore lads. Please support this daw.
     
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  5. trusampler

    trusampler NI Product Owner

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    1,733
    Please support Studio One!
     
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  6. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    Some further thoughts:

    If there is any doubt about the popularity and usage of S1, I'd like to draw your attention to this on a Pro Tools blog: https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/st...e-4-article-gathers-record-number-of-comments

    I would argue that the marketing for the Komplete Kontrol MK2 is downright deceptive; usually when there's a regression of features like this in terms of compatibility, it's made very clear in the marketing pages, or you're alerted when checking out. I don't expect a successor on a product like this to have a serious regression of features at this price point for something as basic as Host Transport Control. The product has been out since October, and it still hasn't been sorted. If something as simple as this can't be sorted in that period of time and you're still not alerting potential customers to this problem in the sales materials, I'd argue that the product wasn't ready to come to market yet. A timescale for when this can be expected should be in the sales materials, along with an alert that it's a regression in some aspects, but you intend to fix it.

    Don't get me wrong, the KKMK2 and Maschine MK3 are brilliant, they are so close to being a fantastic workflow for me and for many others, but without Host Transport Control, they're borderline paperweights when it comes to integration versus the previous gen units. If the idea is not looking at the screen computer screen or fiddling with a QWERTY keyboard or mouse, why do I need to do that just to play, stop, record and rewind with a mouse or distant QWERTY keyboard? Seems backwards to me.

    Studio One is a mature DAW at this point; the 4th version is being announced tomorrow. Almost a decade old.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
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  7. Kymeia

    Kymeia NI Product Owner

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    5,794
    I fully agree that dropping features like MCU support was a retrograde step, although I do appreciate from NI's perspective that they wanted to move to something more OSC based for DAW control features, which potentially offers deeper control and greater flexibility, but they could have kept both.

    However a quick and dirty workaround for your need to have play, stop, record and rewind control in S1 is to map those functions to 4 buttons using cc. Yes those lovely dedicated controls aren't being used but at the end of the day it's just 4 buttons and it works.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
  8. Xyenz Fyxion

    Xyenz Fyxion NI Product Owner

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    308
    Thank you for your response. This issue is something that I have written about months ago. It really seems like nonsense that a second version would not include a simple feature available in the first version. I would love Advanced Integration with Studio One. But, can we at least get a hotfixes for the Transport Controls? By now, it feels like intended neglect.

    Thanks, Kymeia. While your suggestion can be applied, it still is a workaround. To use different buttons for this hardware in Studio One, we have to train our brains to think differently than how we do when using Maschine. Why should I use two separate buttons for the same function on the same device?

    Here's to OSC control.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    14,605
    What exactly is not stable enough with MCU? It's been used for years and it works solidly with other controllers? There's also HUI...
     
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  10. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    682
    Dominic Bazile spoke with me via the Studio One 4 live stream yesterday, they had no idea that the Komplete Kontrol MK2 didn't work with S1 due to a lack of MCU, they only did QA with a Maschine Mikro and assumed it worked. Dominic asked me to open a support ticket, so I did. Seems like they're eager to get this sorted. Channels for communication are open, and linked to this thread from the ticket.
     
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  11. Xyenz Fyxion

    Xyenz Fyxion NI Product Owner

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    308
    Wonderful. Thanks for starting this thread and keeping the communication going HammyHavoc. I've been without this simple feature for a while. I'm grateful that they finally gave Keysplitting and renaming templates back to us. Once this gains more momentum, we may be able to get some sort of integration.


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  12. xgman

    xgman NI Product Owner

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    144
    How hard can it be to make the transport buttons work in Studio One 4? I'm surprised this is even an issue in 2018. All this technology and we still don't have basic universal functions.
     
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  13. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    682
    Crazy, right? Two full color displays on my Komplete Kontrol 2 with a further 2 on my Maschine MK3 next to it-- and yet the basic buttons to actually do anything with it don't work, whereas they work just fine on my KKMK1 and Maschine MK2. I'm wondering if it's industry politics that's slowing MCU support and wanting to push particular DAWs with their Advanced Host Integration. Whatever the reasoning, or lack thereof, it seems silly to be still waiting in what's about to be June for basic transport functionality.
     
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  14. Kymeia

    Kymeia NI Product Owner

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    5,794
    It's not politics, it's just that the transport etc buttons on the Mk 2 do not output midi cc's - they use a different protocol entirely (OSC), one that I guess NI chose to use because it enables much more sophisticated 2 way communication between host and controller than midi does, but the downside is utilising that protocol in practice requires scripting differently for each host and not all hosts may even support it (and requires some communication between both companies to implement well). So getting them to work with MCU is not as simple as it may seem.

    Yeah I would have thought it would have been logical to provide backwards compatibility still by enabling both protocols when this was originally planned but there it is - maybe that wasn't as 'simple' as it sounds either?
     
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  15. JesterMgee

    JesterMgee NI Product Owner

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    1,658
    It (should) be easy to fix this with an internal setup option to set the controls to Native, MCU, MIDI modes so USERS (you know, the ones that actually use these things) can choose themselves how they need them to work.

    Hate to keep rehashing this but the Akai Advance also allows this.
     
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  16. DTEurope

    DTEurope New Member

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    6
    Same issue with FL Studio and Reaper.
     
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  17. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    682
    I created a thread in the Maschine sub-forum: https://www.native-instruments.com/...-daw-transport-on-kkmk2-does-not-work.329495/

    My general thinking is this: if the Maschine MK3 works relatively well with MCU, and the Komplete Kontrol MK2 directly integrates into the Maschine VST-- why can we not output MCU via the Maschine VST on behalf of the Komplete Kontrol MK2 for now? It's admittedly a bit of a workaround and it means people without Maschine would be out of luck, but this would be a very quick fix to implement.
     
  18. Kymeia

    Kymeia NI Product Owner

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    5,794
    Is it really using MCU to control the transport in Maschine, or is it just that Maschine is made, as KK is made, to interface directly with the transport controls using, I guess, either OSC or more likely for these directly via the USB HID protocol?

    If you're willing to use that convoluted a workaround you might as well just do what I do with mapped buttons, which is also not ideal but at least is much simpler to implement and doesn't require Maschine and works in any host - either way it's just a pragmatic way to get stuff done till NI come up with a proper solution, whatever that will be.

    IMG_1037 copy.png
     
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  19. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    682
    It isn't really a convoluted workaround; I thought using Komplete Kontrol within a Maschine VST instance was what the developers intended?
     
  20. Xyenz Fyxion

    Xyenz Fyxion NI Product Owner

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    308
    Kymeia is likely saying that because your workaround necessitates the use of extra software. Not all KK MK2 owners own Maschine. Both of your workarounds work, although they are not ideal. It saddens me that we have to have this conversation and for so long. I personally feel robbed, since this feature disappeared. But, it's not so serious that I'm throwing out my keyboard. I'll see if either of these fit my workflow, for now.


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