Host Transport Control doesn't work with Komplete Kontrol MK2 due to NI removing MCU support

Discussion in 'KOMPLETE KONTROL SERIES' started by HammyHavoc, May 20, 2018.

  1. Kymeia

    Kymeia NI Product Owner

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    Yeah I meant it just requires an extra layer of hardware, which a lot of people don't even have anyway, but also it sounded like you were saying Maschine can't actually do this anyway (I can't test this as I don't have the Maschine hardware, although I do have the software), just you'd like NI to allow it to, so that also seemed extra complicated whereas mapping the white buttons isn't ideal either but at least it's relatively simple and can be done now and it does work (obviously it's just transport not the full MCU capability but transport seems to be what most people are missing right now as the knobs can be mapped to CC) .
     
  2. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    Why does it require an extra layer of hardware? A VST is software. The point I'm making is not to consumers but to NI; the quick and easy workarounds are there for them to implement at a source level; nobody says it has to be within Maschine's VST, the majority of code for this to work could just be added to Komplete Kontrol's VST for the time being until any major decisions are made. For this to not be functional after 8 months is ludicrous.

    To confirm: using transport on the Komplete Kontrol MK2 hardware within the Maschine VST does NOT work, but Maschine hardware's transport DOES work to control your DAW as Maschine's software still has MCU support, and as Komplete Kontrol MK2 hardware integrates directly within the Maschine VST, this COULD work as a quick fix with minimal tweaking.

    As for not many people owning both; I thought this was normality to own both as NI advertises them side by side, and the ideal workflow being both simultaneously to get the most out of the software.

    Whilst I don't disagree about your workaround working, it completely breaks my workflow; I can't unlearn what I've learned on the MK1 KK, it's muscle memory and completely breaks my flow, and my colleagues share this sentiment.

    The fact still remains for everybody concerned; we bought into this based on what the MK1 could do and it was assumed that the MK2 was all this and more as the marketing materials did not imply otherwise. Had we known this, we would have held fire on upgrading.
     
  3. Kymeia

    Kymeia NI Product Owner

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    5,930
    I'm not disputing that it's ludicrous that this is still an issue, for that matter it shouldn't have been an issue from day one (I was actually one of the first to raise it) but it is extra hardware, you are right that some people do own both but a lot don't. So regardless we have 2 workarounds, one doesn't replace the other, they are not mutually exclusive (and I am not saying one is 'better' than the other), so people can choose what works best for them. While we continue to press for a proper solution.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
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  4. trusampler

    trusampler NI Product Owner

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    I bought both the MK3 as well as the MK2 for what appeared to be a nice workflow, but they don't support studio one, so ... until they do, they don't get much use,other then in midi mode. This is quite concerning from NI,I would hav at least thought,they'd keep the same technology in the older board that i owned as well. How about a quick hotfix,for those who need transport controls in Studio One NI?
     
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  5. DTEurope

    DTEurope New Member

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    It seems that is also not working with Cubase LE, at least not out of the box.
    I guess it will never work with other DAWs due to a hardware limitation inside the Keyboards. Maybe there is no space for the MCU Functions. There must be a reason that an already working piece of Software (from the old MK1 Keyboards) can not find the way into the MK2 Keyboards after 8 months.
     
  6. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    Cubase Artist and Pro have Advanced Host Integration— however for whatever reason, this support isn't extended to LE. Instead, LE would require MCU to be added back in order to function.

    It isn't a hardware limitation, it's a regression in software maturity due to NI rewriting the driver. The beauty of NI is that their products rely on software first and foremost to function (i.e. the heavy lifting is done on your computer rather than on the controller), so this should be easy to implement— just needs enough customers to express their feelings over the matter that this is something that's important, and something that is expected. NI says support for other DAWs is coming, but they don't yet know in what form it will take.

    As to why it isn't added to the product after 8 months, it's other things coming first on their to-do list, though MCU support being re-added should be at the top of it considering that for a large chunk of customers, the core functionality of the keyboard is broken, whereas it wasn't on the original, and this isn't made clear in any of the marketing materials— because it's nothing to brag about that the earlier generation product has MCU and the latest does not.

    I don't want to be pushed to using an Akai Advance considering how invested we are in NI at this point as a business.
     
  7. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    16,105
    Yes, it was done from scratch, that's the reason. There certainly is enough space for what's necessary to do MCU.
     
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  8. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    I see you on every forum I visit, from Gearslutz to VI Control to other unexpected places relating to amp modelling; what's your primary DAW? I was investigating Reaper and saw you on that forum too! ;)
     
  9. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    Reaper is my sanctuary. :)
     
  10. Kymeia

    Kymeia NI Product Owner

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    Maybe LE doesn't support OSC?
     
  11. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    When can we expect to see this functionality reimplemented, Adil @ NI ? Days? Weeks? Months? Is this even a priority in the backlog?
     
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  12. trusampler

    trusampler NI Product Owner

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    We waited years for deep integration for studio one with the first S-Series controllers, it never happened, we did get host transport control, and that made it bearable. Still they then bring out another version, then strip away the workaround, now we're here. This shouldn't be a backlog,it should be the front log, like on a chalkboard in the developers office everyday with NEON lights letting them know, this should be a major priority ! Like we didn't go through enough BS with the first version.
    Seriously, we invest in your company,because we want to trust and believe you, we do believe in certain development, when the company says, it will work in your daw, well wtf it's not working in mine! Where's the fix?
     
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  13. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    Here's where I'm at with this: transport control was in the MK1, we upgraded and bought the second gen product because we loved the first so much; the additions on the MK2, could surely only improve things. How wrong we were.

    I'm sure NI wouldn't lend us all e-licensors for Cubase or Nuendo whilst we wait for them to sort this out because they would deem that unreasonable— so why do they think it's acceptable to keep us waiting after having had our money? An ETA at the very least is what we should expect.

    This regression in features isn't mentioned anywhere in the marketing materials. There's no notice when checking out, or a form field that asks "what DAW do you use?" to then warn you of current issues if your DAW isn't currently functioning with the product.

    NI is so close to having a killer product with this, I'm genuinely frustrated. The assumption is that something at this price point for a second generation product isn't going to go backwards on a core feature. NI can't even give us a timeframe to expect this to be sorted.
     
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  14. trusampler

    trusampler NI Product Owner

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    I completely agree and it's frustrating as they know they are dead wrong for this miscommunication,but it goes unpunished in this industry, and customers continue to soak it up. Terrible, imagine if the automobile world we're like this, or the food industry. There is no checks and balances, one would think NI a leader would set an example of a higher standard, but the only example they've been proven to set, is they don't care either.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
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  15. trusampler

    trusampler NI Product Owner

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    What's the status on this fix ?
     
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  16. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    I doubt we'll get a status. NI hasn't even give us an ETA, 8 months after the product's release, and it seems that unless there's a massive shift in their company culture, we won't be getting one. I'm not even sure we'll be getting MCU support. At this point I'm strongly considering switching the business over to Akai products or moving over to Cubase/Nuendo. Yet more expense and learning either way. Not happy about how this has been handled by NI.
     
  17. GeldartM

    GeldartM New Member

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    It is for Cubase so why not Studio one
     
  18. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    Because Cubase has been given Advanced Host Integration by NI. They removed support for MCU in KKMK2, thus Studio One, Pro Tools (come on!), Fruity Loops, Reaper and any other DAW that isn't Logic, Ableton Live, Garageband, Cubase or Nuendo, simply won't function.

    KKMK1 hardware works with Studio One.

    Ridiculous, right?
     
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  19. trusampler

    trusampler NI Product Owner

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    I really think NI should be forced to give users who purchased these keyboards some sort of other option. Not for us to have to shell out money for another daw. They completely let those of us down their customers who upgraded from the komplete kontrol MK1 and MASCHINE MK2 WHERE THE HELL DID MCU GO ???
    Thats not an upgrade that's a loss of a feature we trusted worked in the next version..
    That was a hell of a trick NI.
     
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  20. GeldartM

    GeldartM New Member

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    Yes i have moved from Cubase to Studio One Pro because i am a songwriter and when the juices are flowing i find that Cubase you have to spend 30mins to find out how to do something, in studio one it is very intuitive, you want a vst Instrument you drag it to the main window it creates the track and you are ready to go.

    I have got rid of my FA-06 and purchased the S61 MK2 only to find that the transport functions do not work, the whole idea of using complete Kontrol is that you should not have to use the mouse so much and use the keyboard to start recording, I have got to say that the Keybed on the MK2 is much better than the FA-06
     
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