Host Transport Control doesn't work with Komplete Kontrol MK2 due to NI removing MCU support

Discussion in 'KOMPLETE KONTROL SERIES' started by HammyHavoc, May 20, 2018.

  1. trusampler

    trusampler NI Product Owner

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    1,792
    Yes that's insane. 59 million, but can't fix the above issues lol .. wow!!
     
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  2. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    In the interests of transparency, my email from the 18th just received a reply, here it is:

    We apologize for the delayed response to your request. Due to the high amount of incoming requests, we currently cannot achieve our desired response times. We think it is important to let you know about the current situation. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.
    "I'm not best pleased by NI's handling of the situation of removing MCU support from KKMK2, especially when it hasn't been re-added after 8 months".

    Who said that? Could you please share us the thread in question?

    Let me know if you need further assistance. Thank you.

    Best regards,
    Marcel S. @ NI

    This was my reply to it a few minutes ago:

    Hi Marcel,

    No problem re delay on replying, thanks for getting back to me.

    It was mentioned by Adil from NI here: https://www.native-instruments.com/...-ni-removing-mcu-support.329081/#post-1649159

    Where was this information when I was purchasing these keyboards?

    It’s a general assumption that when a MK1 product includes something as fundamental as MCU support that your MK2 product isn’t going to drop that without explicitly stating anywhere in the sales materials that it is. Asking at the checkout what DAW I use so I can be aware of any quirks/regressions/deprecations before purchasing would have been the human thing to do if the sales materials didn’t make it clear.

    When a £50 MIDI keyboard has MCU, it’s also assumed that I wouldn’t even have to consider for a moment that the MK2 product that’s replacing the MK1 product that had MCU and costs £559 won’t have MCU.

    If the sales materials had stated “we don’t have MCU support yet on the KKMK2, but it’s on our roadmap for implementation for Q2 2018”, that would have been fine; I would have waited until it was in there, or purchased with this in mind and planned around it.

    I personally find the marketing for the KKMK2 to have been incredibly misleading with the withholding of this information, and this isn’t something I would expect from NI. It’s a superb bit of kit, as is the Maschine MK3, just a pity that the only thing stopping it from being perfect for us is the absence of a core feature like MCU.

    I’m still requiring assistance: I need MCU, or Advanced Host Integration for S1 or Reaper. Going to assume that MCU is going to be more of a boon than Advanced Host Integration is. Can we get an ETA for this being implemented? If not, can we get an ETA on Advanced Host Integration on other DAWs? Perhaps a general roadmap like AVID has been known to share?

    Will share more information as I receive it.
     
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  3. Xyenz Fyxion

    Xyenz Fyxion NI Product Owner

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    Thanks for sharing. I'm glad that someone such as you can continue to elaborate on our displeasure with the 'missing feature,' the lack of support and clarity, and the desired remedy/ies..
     
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  4. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    Marcel replied, and it's a very poor response with complete ignorance for the matter at hand:

    Marcel S. @ NI (Native Instruments)
    Jun 20, 15:11 CEST

    The following info is available on the product's spec-page:
    "ADVANCED FUNCTIONALITY IN THE FOLLOWING HOSTS
    Logic X 10.3.1 or higher
    GarageBand 10.2.0 or higher
    Ableton Live 9.2.3 or higher
    Cubase Artist / Pro 8.5 or higher
    Nuendo 7.1.35 or higher

    Please read the KOMPLETE KONTROL documentation for detailed information about host compatibility. For a quick-reference guide to using KOMPLETE KONTROL Mk2 keyboards in the above DAWs, please download the DAW shortcut sheet."

    Furthermore the above is also stated in our KB:

    Notes About KOMPLETE KONTROL MK2 Host Integration
    "Advanced Integration of KOMPLETE KONTROL MK2
    Supported Applications
    • Ableton Live (version 9.2.3 or higher)
    • Logic X (version 10.3.1 or higher)
    • Garageband (version 10.2.0 or higher)
    • Cubase Artist/Pro (version 8.5 or higher)
    • Nuendo (version 7.1 or higher)"

    We understand your concerns, however please understand that "this topic is in our backlog, and we are looking into MCU support vs alternative solutions that would offer greater stability" doesn't equal "removing MCU support from KKMK2".

    Best regards,
    Marcel S. @ NI

    My response:

    Hi Marcel,
    Thanks for the response, though I feel that the point raised has been completely ignored.


    The spec sheet mentions Advanced Functionality; i.e. Advanced Host Integration. I don’t consider MCU to be Advanced Functionality or Advanced Host Integration because it isn't tailored for any specific DAW like AHI is. MCU is absolute basic stuff, especially considering the original supports it. I bought into the KKMK2 knowing that I wouldn’t be able to integrate the mixer or focus follow between tracks, that was fine, the assumption was that MCU would be there as it was in the original.

    Is it present in the original MK1 and not present in the MK2? Yes, thus it has been removed between generations, or perhaps more accurately, it currently isn’t present but you plan on adding it back in at some undisclosed point down the line.

    As I asked before: can you provide an ETA?
    We are talking about functioning transport for a MIDI controller. This should not be so ridiculously convoluted as to need to repeatedly ask for it, let alone be left waiting for 8 months to have it added back into KKMK2 when it isn't explicitly stated that it's removed anywhere.

     
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  5. trusampler

    trusampler NI Product Owner

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    1,792
    Notice he conveniently dodges the ETA, which after this point is unacceptable. If looking into other alternatives is their stance, it may take years for them to develop who knows? He isn't being straight forward here at all, by treating your questions in such manner. This is such a sad way to treat their loyal customers.
     
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  6. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    1,005
    I'll take a stab in the dark and assume that work hasn't even begun on this by how it's phrased as being "in their backlog" still rather than actively being worked on. Meanwhile, I feel like I get a newsletter every couple weeks about some new Maschine expansion or set of NKS plugins from NI; that's enough to make the blood boil quite frankly. Granted, profit is the bottomline, but it's this mentality that leads to the evangelists and professionals going elsewhere.
     
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  7. trusampler

    trusampler NI Product Owner

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    1,792
    Agreed.
     
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  8. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    1,005
    Marcel from NI responded already:

    Marcel S. @ NI (Native Instruments)
    Jun 20, 16:57 CEST
    Please note that we can not give any information about future releases.

    Why can't we provide information on future products?

    At Native Instruments, we continually work on improving existing products, comprehensively developing new versions of current products and creating new ideas. In the course of the development it can happen again and again that the range of functions of upcoming releases changes and yes, sometimes we also decide to not bring a product on the market at all. These are reasons why we can not provide information on current developments. We can only provide information about products that can already be purchased from our website or that have already been announced on our website.

    Should I wait for a new version of a product or a cheaper price for a product as a customer?

    We ask you to answer this question for yourself. Decisive for your purchase decision should be the information you can find on our website, if you are interested in one of our products. If you like a product and you find the price reasonable, then we are confident that you will enjoy the product, as offered on our website.

    Best regards,
    Marcel S. @ NI

    NI pretty much gave us all the finger. My response:

    Hi Marcel,

    It isn’t a future product, it’s an existing, current product that is already purchasable from NI; thus I’m asking for information about it.
    We purchased these keyboards based on the information that NI provided in their sales materials, and after having had a great experience with KKMK1.

    Giving me a copy-paste response that’s completely irrelevant to my question when we’ve already bought the keyboards shows either a complete lack of understanding of the question raised, or a complete lack of respect. Let’s hope it was the former rather than the latter.
     
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  9. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    1,005
    And another reply from Marcel:

    Yes, however please bear in mind that the development of a product depends on the resources available & vice versa. It was implemented for the MK I version, yet not seen as majorly important for the MK II release. Please understand however, that your concerns are taken very seriously & that we constantly try to improve our products for each & every customer of ours. Don't get me wrong! I'm on your side here.

    Best regards,
    Marcel S. @ NI
     
  10. trusampler

    trusampler NI Product Owner

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    1,792
    WOW! Buyer Beware lol what a crock of ****,so now their loyal customers are the outsiders. Cool ! lmao
     
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  11. trusampler

    trusampler NI Product Owner

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    Not majorly important! Holy Moly just wow! Great Marcel, you are something else buddy! Keep diggin' that ditch NI
     
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  12. Xyenz Fyxion

    Xyenz Fyxion NI Product Owner

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    This is probably why NI does not respond much on the forums...

    How is including a feature such as Transport Playback which is available in MK1 keyboards in the second version of the very same keyboard with the same name not important?? If you are not building on the current design, using [the same name] MK2 is not only a misnomer, it's dare-I-say foolish and ultimatum counter-productive. Even if Presonus Studio One users (and Reaper users) are the minority, I don't understand taking that feature away. And, this is a software issue we are talking about. This is easily remedied with an update. Make it important. I'm starting to see why customers have been frustrated with Native Instruments. But, we are telling them that we want to support them. Stop making it so hard, guys.

    Next thing you know, Kontakt 6 won't use samples anymore. And, Massive X will only be a granular synth incapable of using wavetables. ‍♂️
     
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  13. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    1,005
    If anybody wants a good laugh: the just-announced Arturia KeyLab MKII features MCU/HUI control out of the box. The twist— their original MKI also featured it.
     
  14. Xyenz Fyxion

    Xyenz Fyxion NI Product Owner

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    320
    Hahahaha, that actually did make me laugh. I guess it's to mask the pain.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  15. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    1,005
    Lmao, same boat! The sad thing is that the keyboard looks good, even includes pads. Just a pity that the workflow won't come close to what's possible with KK and Maschine. NI are so close to nailing this as a workflow. Genuinely frustrated for them and for people who are in this situation.
     
  16. Xyenz Fyxion

    Xyenz Fyxion NI Product Owner

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    320
    I completely agree. It's bad enough that they took away features and haven't held up their actions to match their word. But, on top of that, it could all be so good. It's our desire for them to be better, and I own that. We can't expect anything of them. But, to show and tell your client base that they aren't important enough to properly explain or follow through... Troubled Waters. And, most of us want them around for the long haul. So, we voice and reiterate. 'Get it together, NI.'


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  17. trusampler

    trusampler NI Product Owner

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    1,792
    "Not majorly important" :rolleyes:
     
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  18. trusampler

    trusampler NI Product Owner

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    1,792
    Bump, this still isn't fixed NI. This is important for alot of your customers, regardless what Marcel says.
     
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  19. Simchris

    Simchris NI Product Owner

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    594
    Still better than the move from Mustang to Mustang II ;-)

    Hope they add more control options for external synths, plugins, virtual instruments, mappings, etc. in upcoming versions.
     
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  20. Simchris

    Simchris NI Product Owner

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    594
    Good idea to learn to wait to read reviews before buying to see if the product meets YOUR needs, vs what you "hope" it will do vs "what it does." Much like people who don't want a new car with a foot brake vs hand brake, or the engine going to V6 vs V8. Getting new version of an Audi S5, without reading a review, and "assuming" it still has a V8, then complaining about it, is what you've been doing to a certain extent.

    You keep making assertions that you have somehow been mis-led, features removed, etc., when it's an entirely new product. Really your fault. Down vote me all you want, it's your lack of research as to your upset, not the fault of NI or their tech support folk you like to denigrate on here for trying to point out the obvious to you that you refuse to understand.

    Thankfully, there is an option in the forum to 'ignore' the clueless, so happy to add you to my ignore list so I can stop seeing your useless posts on here over and over -- have a great day!. :)
     
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