How much would it cost to revive Pro53?

I don't think most people that use Pro53 has come to realize yet the trouble we are in. The user library was huge, and most of us have invested in purchasing additional presets from the likes of R.Devine and Rob Papen.
Too many songs depend on the sequencer being able to open these sounds, so even the idea of buying a Pro5 clone manufactured by another company is not a solution (and it wouldn't sound the same anyway).
I would have expected a compatibility mode in Massive or an instrument in Reaktor that could play back those presets; this too would still be a problem for those that tweaked a sound and relied on their DAW to save the preset with the project (and who saves presets separately anyway?).
But right now there is nothing.
For this reason I had not upgraded Komplete from 5 to 6, but now I have to (I don't want to but I have to) upgrade to Snow Leopard and even if I find a way to install Pro53 I can see that I will need to keep an old machine just to start this software in the future.
It sounds easy but it isn't. Computers are not designed to last more than a few years, as soon as your mainboard or cpu dies there are no spare parts, and the new components will not work with old operating systems.
Personally I find that the engineering resources diverted from maintaining Pro53 are creating products that I don't like and I don't need. Ok, I agree that it is N.I.'s right to do what they want with their intellectual property, and that they have fulfilled their obligations to their customers by keeping Pro53 compatible with the operating system it was designed to work on. But... if it is a matter of time, resources, and having to make tough choices, I have to ask how much time, how many resources? How much would it cost to pay one person for one month or two to give another bump to Pro53? I am sure we could raise some serious money through paypal donations. So name your price.

 

Save your money and get a cheap PC and run Pro-53 on Win XP. It will work forever there.

 

About 6 or 7 years ago I naively thought that all the music software I was buying would, unlike hardware, last forever. Not so. As fbegey says the software needs a specific OS and the OS (and this applies equally to XP) is only compatible with the hardware of its time.

This realisation dawned on me a couple of years ago when my main board blew. I was sufficiently worried about it that I went out and bought two replacement MBO's - one to keep as a spare. But of course my CPU could blow in the future. Or my soundcard and I might not be able to get a replacement that suits my MBO.

So yes in principle software will last forever, and that helped me justify spending a lot of money on it when I started out; but the problem is that its tied to an OS and to hardware both of which have a finite lifespan.

 

Wow...I live in a town of 150k and we have used computer stores that are practically graveyards of old PC motherboards, cpu's, and older PC's that work perfect.

I'm running a computer built in 1999 with Windows 98 because my editor won't work on anything newer. It's okay because my editor exists for the sole purpose of editing 5 rack synthesizers...all of them built in the 1990s with those tiny LCD screens and dozens of menus.

That computer I built in 1999 still works perfect today. The only thing I have replaced is the power supply.

Eventually a lot of VSTI's will unfortunately be abandoned, and Pro-53 is just the start. Or...the owner will charge large upgrade fees for little or no additional features if it's an emulation. I would guess NI felt that sound emulation improvements could not justify the cost, particularly since Arturia has an emulation as well.

So do what Evil says...buy a old PC running XP and be happy. If you feel insecure, buy a couple that run XP. Yes, you will have to treat the old PC like a music box since you won't be able to integrate it with the newest operating system, but you can always record the sound back into your newer PC. Hey...that's sort of like having an actual real Prophet 5 LOL.

 

Yes, Pro53 is only the first

Thanks to those that have posted their comments.
The real issue is that while nothing lasts forever, as human beings we are still used to imagine that things we buy fall in two categories: consumables and assets.
Assets are things like cars, guitars, keyboards. Maybe the mistake is to imagine that software keyboards will behave like plastic-and-metal keyboards, and that if well kept they will last us a lifetime. In studio we have a Hammond from the '50s and my favourite Juno 106, Korg and Moogs are still going after 30 years.

Now with software we get what we pay for: consumable synths, amazing sound and features at a fraction of the price but they will only last ten years.

To all those that think all you need to do is keep an old PC, the problem is that microchips don't last forever. Regardless of what you do (use them a lot, use them zero) the silicon used to trace their circuit is not stable and very slowly leaks until it eventually shorts. It might take ten or twenty years, but it is reasonable to imagine that the oldest chips where there was less extreme miniaturization will last longer ( I do own a few Ataris and PCs that still run after 15 years but I have also buried a few ones due to irreplaceable motherboard gone ) but Pentium 4 might not last this much.
There is some hope as computer speeds increase that by the time your PC is dead your phone will be able to run an emulator of the old operating system.
But for how long the company will continue to offer support for the authorization of your licence?
I think we all need to start thinking about getting used to bouncing every synth and every plugin to audio, all the time.
But in the meantime, while I understand the commercial reasons for dropping Pro53, I can't help feeling betrayed. Dropping support for newer operating systems is not the same thing as Ford dropping production of a particular car model; it is as if all of a sudden every garage in the world refused repairing this model. With an antique car you might not be able to find original spare parts, but you can still pay someone to adapt or build other parts and keep it running. With computers it is all too complicated for anyone to hack it back to life, and the rate at which our investments (money and emotion) die is too quick.

And here is one last thought which might start some discussion: the sound of the Pro53 is still fantastic, well superior to many hardware synths still being sold successfully.
I can't help thinking that if it was marketed more aggressively by a smaller company it would still be a success. I am getting worried about Reaktor and a few others. Komplete is seriously getting too cheap. I mean, great, who complains? But it's like NI is throwing away technology that should be worth thousands more, and soon it will have such marginal value that it won't be worth maintaining anymore. How long has it been since the last significant new features in Reaktor? How long before that is gone too? That's why I'd like NI and other companies to start thinking seriously about setting up a premium service where maybe a hundred professional users can effectively pay too much money to keep three engineers dedicated to 'unprofitable' maintenance. I don't want every user to have to pay for it, but I am sure that a few film composers, established musicians, and grumpy old fools like myself, would prefer to pay more to keep their libraries working rather than being forced to keep replacing everything (even if every synth is very cheap).

 

a.k.a. the Waves Update Plan, which of course is widely hated (mistakenly, IMO) in online forums. But this is exactly why I think "service contracts" like that are a good idea!

 

Hammond organs cannot be compared to electronic keyboards or software. They are motors, gears, wheels, wires and minimal tube preamps. No longer made since 1975 and the only replacement parts come from other Hammonds. Even Hammond didn't envision these organs lasting so long. Will they make it to 100 years, many will, many won't.

Try getting a replacement VCA/VCF for your Juno...NLA. Moogs are built out of descrete components so again as long as these parts are available they can be repaired. BTW, the cost to keep vintage keyboards going is rising fast.

Most current keyboard manufacturers make replacement parts available for 10 years after discontinued.

What? Solid state theoretically will last indefinitely. Usually if it works for 90 days to a year, it will last a lifetime. What does cause failure is small manufacturing defects that show up years later and/or heat.

If you understand the commercial reason then what else is there? They quite making all modular moogs, Hammond B-3's, Wurlitzer EP's and Rhodes, All ARP products, Sequential Circuit products, Korg Tritons etc. etc. etc. I don't feel betrayed~

So then you could never discontinue a software product? If that was a rule going in, I suspect many would not travel down that road. Eventually decisions are made to keep a company going and certain things are either dropped or picked up. Those decisions are not frivolously made I suspect. In my business we have to decide what products we will service and which ones not. Sometimes it's wrenching to drop a product and have to tell customers you no longer service their instrument but it has to be done. (We no longer service Thomas Organs, yeah I know, breaks your heart doesn't it?)

And that's why we but these silly software programs...they sound fantastic!

I'm sure if Pro53 was profitable they would have stayed with it. One thing that will never happen but would be awesome would be for NI to license it to a new company to keep it going and even improve it.

 

[QUOTE
I'm sure if Pro53 was profitable they would have stayed with it. One thing that will never happen but would be awesome would be for NI to license it to a new company to keep it going and even improve it.[/QUOTE]


Exactly. The Pro53 is designed as an emulation. I have read many comparisons between Pro-53 and the Arturia emulation and most people overwhelmingly like the Arturia. I'm just guessing that for NI to jump ahead of the Arturia emulation would mean an investment that would never be returned...simply because there are enough people really happy with the Pro-53. Ask yourself, how close is close enough to the real thing? There is a point of diminishing returns.

NI has discovered over the past 5 years there is a demand for PRESETS. Just look at all the endless products to buy with the free Kore player. Presets is where the money is apparently. For example my guess is NI need the cash of the casual Alisa Keys Piano users who have absolutely no interest in most other NI products. As a matter of fact, some felt NI was going to abandon Reaktor since it hasn't been updated in ages. Fortunately that hasn't happened. And hopefully with the cash of the casual presets users NI can continue development on their flagship product Reaktor.

But as far as keeping old software running, I still think the best solution is to buy a new or old PC and run an old operating system on it. I think there will be many more VSTI's joining the Pro-53 in the future and they will work fine as long as I treat it like another outboard instrument. Spare parts for a PC even with Windows XP are cheap.

 

OK, I don't want to keep this thread going forever and in the end each of us will have an opinion and we will all agree to disagree.
But I think it is still worth making this point that what I find most frustrating is that all those vintage mechanical and electronic keyboards I have can be fixed. Let's forget about the cost for a moment, I am getting all our keyboards regularly serviced by a great guy (I have links on my website, let's not make adverts here) and what has been discontinued can be replaced with other stuff and made to work. VCA and VCF? Yes, I still find them, no problem.

The frustration comes from the fact that there are no schematics for software, it's proprietary code (and definitely too much code to even think to reverse-engineer it all), so when a company decides to discontinue this product that's it.
I am not even remotely suggesting that one shouldn't be able to wake up one day and choose to discontinue a product.
But I am thinking about the nature of software that makes it so reliant on operating systems and constant upgrades that can only come from one source.
I remember reading on some NI manual about their challenge/response copy protection: in an effort to reassure me they were saying that if the company decided to stop trading they would release a universal unlock. Really? How can you be sure? When you buy a hardware synth you don't need to worry about unlocking it (yet) everytime you upgrade your laptop.
So I am just rambling here.
The moral of the story is that I wish NI opened a fund for users to pledge donations to a) extend support for Pro53 or b) add Pro53 presets support in Massive.
Set a budget, if you reach this budget great, if not it really means that it is impossible. What's the harm?
Unless you want to make the code open-source. Yes, I know, it won't happen.

And in the meantime I urge everyone to bounce every plugin to audio, just in case. We are all too reliant on our DAWs ability to reopen projects, and too many records produced in the last ten years will prove difficult to remix and remaster in twenty years time.

 

Yes, I agree.

Ah, but the cost IS the point. Vintage keyboards are selling for more now than many did when new because of collectors and the rarity.

But not from Roland. New old stock in dwindling supplies located in various shops or reclaimed from cannibalized keyboards. This is short term only, not long term. Also, finding good techs for the older analog stuff is getting harder.

A little...he he. Again a new keyboard can break and we can suddenly find that replacement parts are NLA. Some parts are universal but many are proprietary. If you can't get a digital board you're back to cannibalizing or moving on to another product. Getting back to the cost, if people were willing to pay higher dollars for software synths then they may enjoy a longer life. Buyers are so focused on CHEAP that they kind of do this to themselves. If we place such little value on a softsynths then it's longevity will likely be in peril due to the costs necessary to keep it current. The same thing is happening with hardware keyboards as well. Recently a new slew of cheap keyboards are being produced from some of the great companies that have given us high end products. This is simply due to the buying habits of potential customers. New buyers of keyboards are attracted to the low costs and don't understand the higher quality and what it costs. OK, now I'm rambling... Ha!.

Yes, we're beating a dead horse here.

That's good advice, I have done this with older hardware products and still enjoy the sounds even though the keyboard is long gone.