How to Extend the Range of a SAMPLED INSTRUMENT?

Discussion in 'KONTAKT' started by Robert England, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. Robert England

    Robert England New Member

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    2
    Hello, I was wondering how to get more range out of instruments.
    I KNOW the Question is already a POST,

    BUT: The question has gone UNANSWERED for FOUR YEARS (Great Forum we got here!)

    PLEASE DO NOT answer with anything about how the 'instruments are meant to be at this range or that range',. I do not limit myself with such Creativity and Soul Destroying Nonsense.

    Someone gave this OBTUSE NON-ANSWER:
    "Each played note is sampled from a real instrument so it would be weird to detune instruments really low just to have more key range."

    To which I would have said (sarcastically): "What's 'WEIRD' is that you didn't answer the question..., Therefore you must intimately know each and every one of the MILLIONS of Kontakt Instruments and are CERTAIN, NOT EVEN ONE has the instruments range limited!?!?! Good to know!"

    (Case In Point ALL The Multi's in SYMPHOBIA 2 have VERY Limited Ranges for things like Horns and Strings that in No WAY represent the natural range of the instrument in question.)

    Someone ALMOST Answered with THIS in 2012:
    "For the most part, instrument ranges are set to be 'realistic'. That said, every instrument that I've wanted to change has had the facility to do so. I'm not at my music cop at the moment but look for the 'range setting' (or something similar. You should be able to work it out from there. Stretching sample will reduce quality but it WILL extend your range."

    It would have been nice to either WAIT Until he got to where he could ACTUALLY Answer the question OR Come back and update his 'answer',.. Like me, the person didn't ask if it was POSSIBLE he asked HOW to DO IT! :)

    Thank You!
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
  2. David Das

    David Das Moderator Moderator

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    7,039
    You can go into the Mapping Editor and stretch zones as far as you want. Some instrument samples stretch well, others do not. YMMV.
     
  3. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    15,082
    Also, in some cases even if you do the above it won't work, if the instrument has limited keyboard range through scripting.
     
  4. schrage musik

    schrage musik NI Product Owner

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    1,258
    That did NOT answer the question. Be prepared to feel the burn of high-level pomposity. ;)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. pjl

    pjl NI Product Owner

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    4
    Hey, thanks for that answer, albeit a blast from the past. It just solved my problem of having to get an NI flute patch to drop a minor third below its programmed range.

    Cheers
     
  6. tmpc

    tmpc NI Product Owner

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    69
    I had this problem on NI's "The Giant" piano library. I wanted the piano to go down to the C below its normal lowest A note, but this is one of those libraries that won't allow you to mess with the range of the instrument. So, I loaded four copies of the library into Kontakt set to four different MIDI channels. The first copy was the normal piano range, but the other three had their Master Tune knob set at -3, -6, and -9. This changed the pitch and moved the range of those detuned pianos down. I then externally limited the range of the incoming MIDI notes on the three detuned channels to the bottom three notes of the piano (A, A#, and B). That did it. Those low octaves sound great!!!

    I work within Bidule, so this was easy to set up. I tried to figure out a way to do this within Kontakt, but I just couldn't get around the limitations imposed in the Library. Bidule is a wonderful program.

    I really don't understand why some companies place these restrictions on their libraries. Let people mess with it. A real piano can't pitch bend, but a sampled piano can . . . and it's damned cool.
     
  7. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    15,082
    You could've only done it with one extra instrument, transposing it down by -9, adjusting the tuning, and limiting the keyrange as you did. Not sure why you did it in triplicate. Repitching would sound exactly the same.
     
  8. tmpc

    tmpc NI Product Owner

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    69
    This instrument uses a different sample for every note. So in this case, I found that there was too much of a tonal mismatch between the bottom of the normal piano piano range and the top of the transposed range. So, I used the same three bottom notes three additional times. But you're right, that aspect of what I wrote was confusing. However, this multiple shifts technique could probably be used on many instruments to better hide the transition. Thanks for the clarification, ED.
     
  9. stephen23

    stephen23 NI Product Owner

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    400
    Possible explanation.

    If I were the author of a library with a reputation to consider, and had taken some trouble to produce a beautiful instrument that really sounded like the real thing, I might not be too keen on people distorting the sounds by fiddling with the tuning or whatever, then publishing their music with my name on it.
     
  10. tmpc

    tmpc NI Product Owner

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    69
    I wonder if Antonio Stradivari is pissed at Bartok?
     
  11. stephen23

    stephen23 NI Product Owner

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    400
    Unlikely - they were several hundred years apart. But I doubt if he would have approved.

    Just to be clear, in this analogy, Bartok is........you?
     
  12. tmpc

    tmpc NI Product Owner

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    69
    I wish. :)