How to stop Kontakt from ever crashing again (Really Works!)

Hi all,

Here is a method that anyone can use to stop Kontakt (tested with V2.2.3 & Cubase 4.01) from crashing and is actually a better way to work once set up:

Let's face it, Kontakt has some serious issues in regard to incompatibility with various hosts and certain VST's which i find to be unbelievable for product in this price range. Just take a deep breath.....relax.......and stop praying that the next magical update that will fix all your problems as the chances are it won't.

As Kontakt is not a 64 bit program, it cannot take advantage of the new Duo-Core / Quad-core processors. I wanted to upgrade my PC to a Quad-Core but was afraid that spending a huge sum of money in doing this (£1000+) would not give me any benefit's, mainly because alot of my software is not 64-bit, creating issues of compatibility. A friend of mine bought a Core-Duo system, put vista on it. Result = half his software wouldn't work & he couldn't get drivers for most of his hardware! He downgraded to XP-64 bit = same issues. He ended up putting XP-Pro back on meaning he is no longer in a 64-bit environment ...Doesn't seem like a very sensible path to follow, to me!

Even with Kontakt's big problems, it's still a fantastic concept and NI deserve a pat on the back for bringing us this amazing software (followed by a swift kick up the arse for not testing it before release....Beta testers, please form a line at the sales counter!)

Faced with the issues of being stuck with my Pentium-4, 2.66ghz system, i started looking at other options for my DAW, as CPU resources are critical on a system like mine. I decided to investigate the whole area of PC-Farms, which is networking a series of PC's together all with different VST's running on each. I bought a cheap Pentium-4, 3.0ghz from the computer fair for £150 and set it up exclusively as my 'Kontakt' machine. All this PC has on it is the following:

XP-Pro
Kontakt 2.2.3
Kontakt Libraries
FX-Teleport 1.04 (server program allowing PC-Farm networking for your DAW)

This is great as because Kontakt is now on a remote machine, it does not affect the CPU of my host machine at all, and the latency is virtually undetectable to the human ear. FX-Teleport routes all the audio back to your host through your network, so no need for any fancy mixing desks or audio interfaces; but the most magical discovery has yet to come:

.........As Kontakt is running in isolation as a VST on it's own PC, it is effectively removed from interacting with your host sequencer (FX-Teleport does all the communication) and amazingly, I have not experienced a single crash or bug of Kontakt whilst running in this setup. I now have another Farm-PC running REFX-Nexus (another CPU hungry beast!) which all integrates perfectly with my Host running Cubase-4.1.

The way i look at it is this: Given that Kontakt works perfectly on it's own PC, £150 was a small price to pay for one of the best Sampler setup's you can get. I remember paying £2000+ for a Akai S5000 back in the day which is nowhere near what Kontakt can do today. As the upgrade to K3 is £79.99 (DV247.com) you would be better off, in my opinion, using this to buy a Farm-PC until such a time that NI can fix their product to work with other programs.

I am very happy with the whole PC-Farm thing as all my software works (most importantly Kontakt), Farm-PC's are relatively cheap as they only need CPU, memory & LAN (no fancy graphics cards required etc,.), & the flexibility of this setup far outweighs a single PC. You could have Kontakt on several machines simultaneously to counter the 2GB limit imposed by non-64-bit operating systems.

It would actually appear that Kontakt's inherent problems are not due to the program itself, but rather the way the program interacts with other software such as hosts & Vst's. I have lots of other VST's i use heavily such as the Spectrasonics line etc,. (which have never crashed once!) so maybe NI should consider employing some fresh blood in their programming department from some of these other companies who can sort out this mess they have created, & upset alot of their customers in the process.

I hope i have helped the Kontakt Community with this experience of mine, by presenting an option that some might not have considered.

Peace

Voyager360

 

Good idea. . .

On a similiar note, I recently purchased a more powerful computer (MacPro tower computer) but still kept my aging Dell Precision Workstation 650. The nearly 4 year old Dell computer still works great and holds most of my Native Instruments software plug-ins. The old Dell computer is "networked" to my newer computer via MIDIoverLAN CP 3 by Music Lab. The set up works great! Keeping an older computer as a "Native Instruments" (Kontakt) computer is also an option. Also, the MIDIoverLAN CP software is a fine program especially if your studio holds both PC and Apple computers. My modest studio works just fine with this set up.

 

.

Hey, thanks for the wonderful post...Great Idea, for sure!

JOOC, in terms of connection logistics, can you clarify..? Ethernet? Are you accessing through your audio I/O at all? Or is this an entirely new I/O protocol?

And how are you configured in Cubase to access the sampler?

I'm actually using SONAR 7.0.1, but I'm seriously considering the option of outsourcing hardware for Kontakt 3 and maybe even Guitar Rig 3 (Kontrol Edition).

I have consistent ASIO / WDM driver mayhem (especially accessing Kontrol Rig and say, Rapture simultaneously). As soon as K3 is happy, Rapture crashes SONAR 7, etc. (using both VST and RTAS versions of Rapture, which is perfectly stable w/o K3).

I'm using a Presonus Firepod w/ updated firmware / drivers.

DAW
Intel Quadcore Q6600 w/ 4GB 3200 DDR2 w/ latest BIOS
3 internal Seagate 250 GB SATA HD (apps, audio, samples)

w/ XP Professional 32 bit w/SP2 & Sonar 7.0.1

Presonus Firepod (NOT FP10 w/latest firmware).


Thanks.

: )

 

Probably best to get Kontakt off your host for now & onto it's own system, until NI can fix it. FX-Teleport uses your existing network setup (mine is wired Ethernet cable) to transfer midi & audio data to & from your host. I'm using a Virus TI keyboard as my audio interface (& ASIO driver) and it's as simple as that.

I am not using audio I/O, midi cables or audio cables etc. Each PC in my farm is connected to my router via ethenet only & all mixing is done inside Cubase.

From what i've heard, NI software seems to work along side other NI software ok, so you might consider Kontakt & Guitar Rig 3 for use on this external system.

Within Cubase, FX-Teleport installs an extra menu inside your VST instruments panel called 'FX-Teleport'. You simply select your external VST just like you normally would and it automatically loads on the remote PC. If this PC is not in the same room, you can use 'Remote Desktop' to see & edit the VST as it is only displayed on the remote PC.

 

Voyager360,

Since you are running Kontakt as stand-alone on it's own PC, are you able use all 64 MIDI channels in Kontakt at once? Currently, if you run it inside Cubase as a VSTi, you can only access 16 channels.

 

Kontakt is running as a VST, not stand-alone, on the remote PC. FX-Teleport allows you to start VST's on a remote PC without having to be inside of a host program. As such, it functions just as it would if it were on your main computer (as a VST) inside Cubase etc.,

 

wow, v360, thanks for the response.

this all sounds very exciting.


i'm still a bit confused as to how you get your audio & midi i/o happening - pardon me if i'm a bit slow.

thanks, again - very cool

.

 

.

i just read some basic lit. at the fx-teleport site...

very interesting, indeed......hmmmm


i think my previous question to you is irrelevent, no?

iow, my audio / midi set up remains the same - i'm merely adding a networked machine w/ K3 installed.
again, sorry it's taking me a bit to grasp this - it's my pea brain. i'm still a bit fuzzy on the details. it seems like it's definitely worth checking out..

thanks again, for the tip.

.

 

sorry for all the messages : )

do we know HOW fx-teleport allows a host to open a vst from another pc? i mean i'm not asking for code breakdown ; ), just a simple explanation..

guess i'll go back to their site tomorrow - i'm beat.......zzzzzzzzzzz

.

.

 

Fx-teleport is installed on all PC's in your network including your host. This small program turns each remote PC into a server ready to respond to the host PC. When started, your VST will simply appear on the desktop of the remote PC without the need for any host sequencer.

This program is very simple to install & use & gives fantastic results.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think you can do all this without hardware audio cards if you have a Mac (as I do) as your main computer.

I use a bunch of PCs, as Sqye does, but everything is networked as hardware. This means that the Kontakt 2 instances run in stand-alone on the other PCs, allowing 64 midi channels per instance.

To simplify the midi issue, you can use MIDI Over LAN CP, which appears to do over ethernet for MIDI what FX-teleport does, but does not have the audio function.

 

FX-Teleport 2 is currently being worked on which will include MAC support. Here's some info ahead of release; No date as yet:


FXT 2 features some exciting new core technologies, many of which have been requested by the users. Here is the short list.

• kernel level Ethernet streaming for Mac and PC
• virtual ASIO driver
• VNC-based remote control
• independent plug-in and host loading
• core Mac port
• protocol-independent plug-in communication
• AU/VST/DirectX/Rewire connectors
• standalone ASIO/KS/DirectX/MME/CoreAudio output
• studio manager

 

It is an interesting approach. Makes good use of older hardware and allows for a setup where you don't have to touch a working system all the times (Windows updates etc.). One shouldn't forget related cost issues however. Older hardware - particularly Intel's P4 - are known toasters and consume quite a lot of energy which can easily cost you up to €150 per year. Also, if you have your PC farm in one room you have to tackle fan/noise issues etc. But still: I like the idea. Once my current dual core gets agey I will reserve it for such a setup. Thanks!