I cannot change the volume of the midi notes with most libraries

Hi.. This happened with most libraries loaded in Kontakt. I play some notes and they get a certain volume (velocity). When I later go into midi note editor to change the velocity of individual notes using the mouse, I can see the numbers changing, up and down between 0 - 127. But the actual volume (sound loudness) does not change. Is there a fault, or is it a trick or should it be done differently with kontakt? It is quite frustrating actually. I normally find different way of achieving this (possible using automation, etc.. But I'd like to get to the bottom of it, if possible.

I am on iMac 10.14.6, Logic 10.5.1, Kontakt 6 Player 6.4.2 (R93)

 

Which libraries specifically?

 

In this case, it was Realivox by Reaitone. But I remember it happening with other libraries too. For example I tried it just now with Stradivari violin. Same thing!

 

Another day, another manual not read.

 

By the way, I've just pulled the same region to a track loaded with Spitfire Strings live, and there it worked fine!

 

Do you mean that kontakt works in a different way? Please expand!

 

In a number of libraries you don't adjust velocity with note velocity, but with a MIDI CC like modwheel etc.

 

This confusion seems contagious. They're not the same thing.

Volume is how loud it is.

Velocity is a MIDI message, sent each time you play a note - indeed it's part of the note message. If you use a keyboard, the value will probably depend on how hard you hit a key. How the message is interpreted depends on the programming of your instrument.

Traditionally it has been programmed to control volume - ideal for a piano, where loudness for each note is set in stone the moment the note is played.

It is also often used to control attack time - how long a new note takes to reach full volume. In Kontakt it's used to select samples. In legato instruments it can be used to distinguish between several legato lines played in the same instrument. It has been used for pitchbending the beginning of a note, e.g. trumpet. Volume will only be affected if so programmed.

Anyone who spends hundreds on music software might find it worthwhile to spend a few minutes boning up on the MIDI protocol - how music devices communicate with each other.

 

Excellent advice. Also the manual is your friend. Every piece of software I have that uses CC1 for volume said so in the manual.

 

Thanks Stephen23 (and everyone else trying to help).. I am stuck on the sentence "Velocity is a MIDI message, sent each time you play a note".
Yes, I know that. Velocity is determined by how hard you hit the keys on a keyboard, or how you change the modwheel while playing etc..
But my problem is that I occasionally want to adjust the volume of individual notes after I've recorded them. Now on stock libraries (and even other 3rd party libraries) I do that simply by going to each note and changing its velocity (no need to revert to automation). The playback "volume" of that note will change accordingly.
I take it that this internally sends some standard CC# message to the plugin. So are we saying that some kontakt libraries are using non-standard CC# value which I have to find out for each library and use automation to control that? This seems a bit too devious for doing a simple thing!
It is working as expected with DrumMica! and with Analog Dreams, but not with Stradivari or Realivox, for example. All are Kontakt libraries!
I checked the manual, and I cannot find anything that explains this!
I think there is something basic that I'm just not getting!

 

No, not "or". Velocity is ONLY how hard you hit the keyboard. Modwheel is something else, it's a continuous controller.

Just think of it like this: if the library is more about keyboard-based instruments (pianos, synths, harpsichord, etc), or instruments that are momentarily triggered (drums, percussion, etc.), velocity matters. If it's more about string/wind/vocal instruments, velocity usually doesn't matter because dynamics of those instruments are fluid, continuous. So you would use modwheel to create those dynamics, NOT velocity. Which is also why velocity doesn't work for default sustain articulations in string libraries like Stradivari you mentioned. Think about it a bit.

 

CC1, active that in the Lane in your daw and alter the values of that.
Things like drums which are only velocity based will use just that.
A flute, for example, attack will be controlled by velocity whilst moving the mod wheel will alter volume and perhaps timbre.

 

The easiest way to do this is with volume automation, either CC7, CC11, or if using a wind or breath controller CC2. Go to the note you want louder and raise the volume. Check you DAW manual and it will tell you how your DAW handles automation.

I hope this helps.

 

This technique will work perfectly if Velocity has been assigned to control Volume in the instrument.

This is the root of your misunderstanding. Velocity doesn't "internally send CC messages", it is itself a message with a value,.which can be assigned to any function (often, but not exclusively Volume) just like a CC,except that it's not continuous.

I really do thnk that you (and indeed many others) would benefit from brief study of how the MIDI message system works.

 

Thank you so much everyone for your helpful information and advice. Especially about the nature of every library (instrument) and the nature of sound it produces, i.e. "fluid" vs. "hammer" .. I am keeping this in mind now.
My conclusion now is that with "fluid" libraries I'll mostly need to resort to automation to get the desired sound levels.
I have no problem with automation and I do use it quite often, but my initial problem was that I tended to use automation only during the final stages of my project, final editing, or even mastering. At the beginning of a project, when building the "skeleton", or the so called "scratch tracks", I often used velocity editing to quickly and conveniently 'tame' wild midi notes to some listenable level, etc.. That was the reason for my original question.
Thanks again!

 

Oh, and I forgot to add.. In my opinion, the fact that loudness cannot be controlled through velocity in the libraries we talked about, is not an intrinsic property of these sampled libraries, it is just a manufacturer's choice. I don't know if you would agree though

 

Yeah it's a choice. But it's a choice that makes sense for instruments that can change their dynamics continuously during a note

 

Indeed. Thank you

 

Omar17166, I just bought NI's Stradivari Violin, and I'm making all the same disappointing discoveries with the individual note velocity controller (in Logic) that you did... and my keyboard does not have a mod wheel. I'm trying to finish a project by a certain deadline, so in this case I'm probably just going to use track volume automation during mixing to achieve the instrument volume variations I want. But after I finish this project I'm clearly going to have to study up on all this to find other solutions! It has been helpful to read this thread, in any case.

 

Pray, tell the keyboard that has no mod wheel. It surely, like the hedgehog, cannot survive in a world alongside keyboards awash with multiple CC controllers.