I can't edit instruments (video question)

I think seeing is better than describing:



Why can't I edit the instruments that I load up? I set up a multi and got it working in Abelton on serperate tracks using Abelton's external instrument on all but the first and the output mapping in Kontakt. Whenever I touch a knob on any of the instruments all the knobs change and the entire sound is different. Surely I am missing something noobish.

I tired different instruments to make sure it wasn't just retro machines. I tried Session Strings as well amongst others. Twist any knob and they all change.

If I load up The single out Kontakt vst rather than the 16, everything behaves normally. So, I am assuming there is something buggy with the 16 out, which really sucks, because that is one of the main draws of Kontakt, is getting multiple instruments up quickly and saving multis.

 

Thanks so much for making the video -- that makes it super-quick to help diagnose.

The second problem you mention (the filter) -- it looks like the filter itself is switched off (see the button at the top of the filter section) and that's why the cutoff knob isn't doing anything.

The first problem is more of a mystery. You're right -- turning one knob shouldn't be changing all the others.

Could you try the same experiment in Kontakt's standalone app? I have a hunch that it won't have the same problem. Therefore, there's something going on in the interaction between Kontakt and Live. Perhaps as you turn knobs, Kontakt is sending certain control signals to Live, which is mirroring them back to Kontakt (since the track is record-enabled), and then Kontakt is responding to those signals with different knobs.

But to be sure -- first try it in Kontakt standalone.

 

No it does not happen in stand alone with a multi, but then of course I don't have separate outputs configured either, because they all need to go to a physical out.

If I turn off record enable, the problem still occurs.

If I change the midi input on an instrument on the rack to say B-1 (which has nothing on it), the problem still occurs.

If I do not hit play over the loop and turn a knob while no sound is being produced. the problem still occurs.

Abelton Live Version: 9.1.3 32 bit
Kontakt VST Version: 3.1.0.4 32 bit
Audio Interface: MOTU Micobook II
OS: Windows 7 64 bit

Kontakt has 4 instruments:

Midi Chan A-1
Urban Beats 100-Goodas
Output 01 Kt.st.1(1) - Plugin out #1
Output 02 Kt.st.1(2) - Plugin out #2

Midi Chan A-2
Urban Beats Percussion 2
Output 01 Kt.aux.1(1) - Plugin out #3
Output 02 Kt.aux.1(2) - Plugin out #4

Midi Chan A-3
Retro Machines Mk2 Subbass 2
Output 01 Kt.aux.2(1) - Plugin out #5
Output 02 Kt.aux.2(2) - Plugin out #6

Midi Chan A-4
Retro Machines Mk2 NeoGroove
Output 01 Kt.aux.3(1) - Plugin out #7
Output 02 Kt.aux.3(2) - Plugin out #8

Abelton has 4 Tracks

1 Kontackt 16 out Plugin
Input Novation Impulse, Ch 1
Monitoring Auto
Output Master

2 External Instrument
Input Novation Impulse, Ch 1
Monitoring Auto
Output Master
Routing Target 1-Kontack 5 16out
Midi To 2-Kontack 5 16out

3 External Instrument
Input Novation Impulse, Ch 1
Monitoring Auto
Output Master
Routing Target 1-Kontack 5 16out
Midi To 3-Kontack 5 16out

4 External Instrument
Input Novation Impulse, Ch 1
Monitoring Auto
Output Master
Routing Target 1-Kontack 5 16out
Midi To 4-Kontack 5 16out

 

Hmmm. The mystery continues.

On the left side of the Kontakt interface, hit the Automation tab. Check both sub-tabs. Are there any assignments there? This might give us a clue into what is triggering multiple knobs to move.

Certainly, the fact that it doesn't repro when you're in standalone mode makes me assume Ableton is doing some re-routing, but your second post, showing how even changing MIDI channels doesn't stop it from happening, mystifies me. It might require an Ableton expert to diagnose further.

 

host par. 0-254 are unassigned
host par. 255-511 are assigned

midi cc 0-127 are unassigned

 

I made a similar post on the Abelton forums, but it has gone unanswered for a day

 

I don't know Ableton well enough to help here, but my suspicion is something to do with those host parameters 255-511...

 

Well from what I've Googled, mapping something to the host parameters is the only way to automate anything in Kontakt from Abelton. So everything should be mapped somehwhere...at least if I am understanding right.

I'll propagate this to support for both products and see if they come back with anything. I'm at a loss and feel pretty bummed after dropping the cash to upgrade.

 

I have it halfway figured out now. Evidently there are alot of beefs on multiple forums about a known bug in Kontakt where the following happens:

) When you load up an instrument, Kontakt auto assigns host automation parameters for the various controls on that instrument.
) When it gets to #511, it has run out of places to assign. So, it assigns each one after that to #511.

If I go remove all host automation from #511, the instrument controls behave as you would expect.

So, while this halfway solves my problem, it gives rise to two others in order to completely work around the original.

A) There doesn't seem to be a way for me to multi select host automation params from the list in the left pane, such that I can remove more than one at a time.
B) I don't see a way to stop the automatic assignment it does when you drag an instrument onto the rack. If it didn't assign anything at all, I could just manually assign the ones I want myself and avoid the issue.

P.S.
I submitted a support ticket, but suspect the web page broke at least temporarily. It went blank, then when I reloaded it said it had gone through and I should expect a confirmation email, but a confirmation email never came. Junk mail was checked. Haven't heard back, so I suspect it never went through.

 

You cannot stop the auto-assignment from happening since it's scripted into the instrument. This is not a bug.

The behaviour when not having any more automation parameters available for assignment might be considered a corner case that needs some fixing.

 

The bug is it doesn't get rid of them....
Load one instrument, audition the patches a few times and bam.

 

I have encountered the same bug in Pro Tools 11.2 with the latest Kontakt. I have to check the #511 assignments every time I load a new instrument and remove them. Luckily I can select them all at once unlike brekehan. I don't recall Kontakt exhibiting this behavior before my recent Mavericks+PT11.2+K5 updates.

 

Support ticket went unanswered....Losing faith in NI