i7 Extreme Windows7X64 Far better than i9 7920X win 10 for NI/Ableton?

Folks,
i am at a loss as to why, but it seems my windows 7 setup of 5 years was far superior to brand new win 10 i9 12 core setup with similar base core frequencies. I upgraded only because of no more win 7 support and old processor had no 'AVX' support. Ableton cannot run even 1 instance
of massivex without distortion/pop crackles.. Curiously the misleading ableton cpu useage reports >100% whearas windows task manager quotes 10%. Internet says these processors are equivalent. The Win 10 PC is very highly specced on Asus X299 prime delux2 board with NVME PCIE SSDs for OS, 32 Gb RAM etc. I am a Komplete user. I used to run large 15 track orchestrations on the i7 extreme and ableton has ok.

My query;

Have folks seen a reduction in performance on intel i9 compared to I7?
Have folks successfully run Massive X (say 2+ instances in Abelton) on i9 hardware?
One other change is that i cannot get MY RME firewire interface working on new hardware and instead must use RME USB Babyface. USB does appear to use more CPU firewire.
Is there another thread covering this topic? i couldnt find it.

Any advice appreciated. Something is broken regarding Windows 10 20H2, I9 platform, and VST plugins...

 

Do not have experience with those CPUs. You do not mention cooling. i9 might need better cooling, than i7. The both CPUs have similar power consumption, but it means nothing.... Those specs are pretty misleading concerning Intel.....

It looks like i9 has lower base frequency than i7. And probably is not able to reach higher values (might be due to need for better cooling).

Ableton does not measure/show CPU load, but buffer usage. If one core is loaded heavily and rest doing nothing, Ableton shows almost 100%, Win manager 4% - or so.

Also, you mention you have changed the audio interface. Maybe you do not have the same size of audio buffer? Or generaly, if you increase the buffer size, Ableton will show lower CPU load.

And, I am not sure. But it seems to me, that latest (few days ago) Kontakt version has changed the way CPU load is distributed to the cores. It seems to me it is way better now.

 

I am also wondering if this could be related to hyper-v in windows 10 20H2

 

Thanks for the response. The components actually came from scan.co.uk pretuned for overclocking (which i have since put back to normal speed in case its casuing the issue) .Yes the i9 has an advanced cooler (3XS Corsair H100x CPU Cooler - liquid cooler). Ableton certainly has one core heavily loaded, and similar to what you mention, there was a time when an overclocked i7 4 core was still way better than the latest i7 6 or 8 core, as the app was not sufficiently multi threaded to take advantages of all the cores.So baseline CPU GhZ was most important. But the drop off in performance i am seeing, making the system unuseable is something else. Native instuments help support seems to have disappeared entirely without even a tech support email, but at least ableton still have tech support so finges crossed they might have some ideas...

 

Do you have latest Kontakt installed? Week or so, old. It handles memory better. And it seems to me it also uses hyperthreading in better way.

If you want I may try two Massive X patches on my very old systém. Notebook i7 3612QM 4C8T running at 2,1 GHz, 16 GB RAM, SSD. Just tell me what patches. I havent tried to run 2 Massive X plugins, but one works OK.

If there is big difference between your i7 and i9, it may be connected to AVX instructions. Intel made pretty mess in AVX world and AVX capabilities varry hugely across Intel processors.... :-(((

If you have problems with Massive X, but not with other NI plugins, I bet on AVX "trouble".

I do not use Ableton, so cannot test in it. And also do not use Win10, still on Win7. You may try skip Ableton and try Massive in other DAW or in Maschine 2. Just to verify, that the problém is not in Ableton.

I had some problems with NI SW and they solved it quite fast (few weeks) and issued new corrected version. I do not know, if that was coincidence and I had good luck, or it usually works like that....

 

Tech powerup -throttleStop High performance settings to the rescue!


Hey thanks for the tips. I will run all NI stuff outside of Ableton to confirm it works.
i am using a couple of 'new in V1.3' massive X patches;

i will check out AVX problems . Right now i am in the process of removing any CPU virtualisation in the bios, and looking to overclock again .The RME fireface800 isnt working on this Asus Prime X299 board either, but the USB audio is rock solid outside of ableton.

Task manager CPU report seems misleading ,with performance monitor info only slightly better. At least perfmon shows one core redlining @ 3.5 GHZ. So its runing at the right speed.

And then I found throttle stop. THank you techpowerup guys.

It looks like the win 10 'choose a power plan' (high performance) is not working on my win 10/board/cpu combo. As soon as i switched CPU to high performance using throttlestop, all the problems went away. Clearly Ableton 9 is not able to do this itself either.

I'll take it up with ableton, and then look at the bios again. (screengrabs attached)

Thanks again.

 

About those "distortion/pop crackles" this is usually down to the buffer size which you can change up or down depending on your particular audio interface.

Also Its rare but possible that windows might be running background tasks which has a higher priority to your key programs. You should be able to fine tune windows via the advance options in device manager, so that its priority is either set to background or foreground task.

I doubt your cpu would have been the issue.

 

Heres a response from Ableton regarding the fact that Live cannot run the Ni plugins and izotope , and also a recommendatino not to use the techpowerup tool. Make your own mind up about it. Its a disclaimer regarding the software and no alternative solution presented. I think any advanced audio DAW user understands that single cores get loaded up and that audio tasks are not amenable to programming for parallel processing. So with that in mind......Forget about i9, stick with the highest clocked i5 or i7 you have...and post here if you use the AMD Ryzen and find it better!

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
This need is very special to audio applications.
Using an i9 with 12cores at full speed would cause the TDP to rise dramThis tool is dangerous as it might lead to hardware failure, a decrease of the hardware's lifetime, and it can potentially result in data loss should the computer crash. I'd suggest using it with extreme caution, if at all.

Their notes also state this:


I pointed out pretty clearly what Live does in the context of multi-threading.
It's totally capable of feeding up to 64 threads, however, due to how any software works parallelizing certain tasks is not as easy as one might think.
It is certainly not trivial and something that bothers any modern software company dealing with quasi real-time-operations.
Some tasks are easy to parallelize. Quasi-real-time audio is certainly not.

You'll find no other DAW with Lives capabilities (especially in terms of routings, mappings, device groups/nesting etc.) that can handle the given situation any better.

I think I also pointed out that the actual issue is that these multi-core processors are not made for a strong load on multiple single cores over longer time periods, generally speaking.atically and thus likely overheat (I hope the tool does not disable thermal throttling).
Throttling happens for a good reason.

However, I'm happy that you found a way to work with Live.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

I guess, the problém is in current Intel CPUs. Intel has problems with 10nm proces, so most of processors are 14nm. That means, they consume more energy for given task. Which means they produce more heat for the task. If Intel has maximum rating 100W it easily takes 200W, until CPU temperature rises too much. Than frequency goes down to cool CPU down.... Crackling....

Newest Ryzen's (Zen 3 - family 5xxx) are a way superior to current Intels. More cores, better proces (7 nm), lower consumption (easier to cool, harder to hit technology limits - more headroom), more stable delivery of computing power.

Generally, Intel is lagging behind AMD at present time. It may change in year, two... If Intel catches its breath. Which is not sure... So, if things continue to go wrong, it may také longer.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryzen

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It is as Ableton writes. Many cores is fine, but one core power is also of great importance, if one uses CPU intensive plugins, or long plugin chain (many plugins on one instrument/track). And also sidechaining, mainly if sidechain signal goes from CPU hungry track.

 

Thx to y’all. I had exactly the same problem and the throttle sw helped to get rid of it.
Laptop i7 8750 with 64GB RAM and a permanent cpu overuse and crackling with only two instruments and two fx in Maschine...
all fixed now and hardly any cpu usage being shown now.
So thx again!

edit: one can also use the „Balanced“ setting in the throttle sw that works fine too. Just in case your afraid to damage your computer.