Ideas for a Kontrol D2 MK2

Hey Traktor users,
I've decided to create this post to sum up ideas for a possible D2 MK2. Here I post a first mockup of my concept! Feel free to give feedback

As you may deduce from the mockup, this MK2 version would be wider than the original D2, but with all this extras...

• Dedicated Mixer FX / Filter knob
  
• Larger screen
  
• Tempo Fader
• Industry standard Play + Cue positions
  
• Loop in/out dedicated controls

But also, I'd love that the A/B/C/D buttons where RGB to allow and give feedback fo the following combinations:

• Hold Deck button to quickly select the controlled Deck (buttons in the color of each deck)
  
• Hold FX Select to select the top FX unit that is controlled (buttons in orange)
  
• Hold Mixer FX button to select the Mixer FX that is being controlled (buttons in the Mixer FX colors)
  
• And finally, this one is trickier but... Hold REC button to control the Loop Recorder (buttons in green)

 

Nice. I’d buy it.

Would have some smaller things I’d change but that’s just personal preferences.
As an addition it’d be lovely to have a similar controller with a jogwheel, so one would have the same Layout just without Remix deck controls but the wheel. Putting them side by side would make a nice setup.


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I would like a J1. Almost identical to Denon's new LC6000. But with Tractor's Jog Wheel and an angled screen.
I would go for two J1s and one D2 mkII, along with the mixersektion of the S8.

 

This in standalone version with Beatport Link is the dream.

 

I love the mockup. Looking at it made me think of some other things I'd like.

The dream would be a modular Traktor hardware lineup.

A D2 mk2, and options for standalone decks and and standalone mixers in small, medium and large, or small and large. NI already has small and medium standalone mixers, the Z1 and Z2.
I'm not sure how realistic this is, but since Traktor is a bit of a walled garden, like Apple, I'd love if they'd try to make the mostly closed Traktor ecosystem as varied as possible. (it's not closed because they don't let others in, it's closed because for Traktor users, a CDJ 2000 mk whatever just sucks as a controller.)

If NI would create a complete lineup of modules, the gear would become much more portable. When traveling, the S4 mk3 is big and clunky, but if you split an S4 into three parts, it would pack neatly into a backpack. I've transported my S4 mk3 on a rented e-scooter, it's not great. And biking is out of the question. And when I've gigged abroad, I had to put it in a big carryon bag. Modules could theoretically go in hand luggage.

If the modules would be reasonably affordable like the rest of the NI gear, you'd also have a much simpler upgrade path. You could start with two mini decks and a Z1. Or just use an X1 and a Z1. With the addition of standalone decks, you could upgrade decks and mixer section one at a time. It'd also create space at the top for a more grand deck, bigger wheel, bigger screen, all that. much more feasable on a standalone deck than on an all-in-one.
Denon seems to be making quite a market for itself with its players, so it's clear that the market wants more than just one Pioneer player.
And NI users are quite happy with the thinner NI products, and again, portability is a plus, when you use gear that isn't industry standard.

To reiterate, alongside this D2 upgrade, my wish list also has a Z4 mixer, based on the S4 mixer section but with more stuff, and two deck types. Lets grab the C and call them C1 for an S2 type deck, and a C4 for something that'd improve upon the S4 mk3 experience, big screen, bigger jog, all that stuff.
Because we want to spend our money to buy slight improvements, over and over. Please take our money

 

So you want behringer cmd controllers?

 

What? No. I’m using S4 mk3. I want bigger, more screen, modular. As I said. Cue look like x1/z1 clones. And they look ugly. And they look like connection failures, mid set. No. Go back to the serato forum.

 

Modular controllers, 4 channels, bigger jogs and jog alone controller… all of these were cmd line. That’s why asked…

About Serato forums I closed my account there (not sure if you were pointing to that) because Serato had lost their minds… NI maybe still not but subscription cloud based model (maybe keeping full purchase options) seems the next logical step regarding CEO and business movements… let’s see what truly means for traktor if so.

 

Sorry about the serato jab, I thought you were having a go. I didn't know the Behringer controllers, I'd started using NI hardware and I'd given up on generic controllers, too much glitching, mapping and all that. And NI controllers are custom made for the hardware, and with unique features like the rotary loop/beat jump dials that are central to my workflow.

I want something that might serve as a serious alternative to the CDJ 2000 nexus series, or the Rane 12.

You can't make the S4 any bigger really, because of transportability, and because of price. But a single deck with larger platter and screen would be transportable and could well be sold for like 600 spacebucks. Adding one is an upgrade. Then you add another, then you get a mixer and a bag that fits all three, and sell the S4 or stow away as backup.

I already use the D2 alongside my S4 mk3, and I've used the CDJ 2000 nexus ones in HID mode in similar capacity as well, a few times, if they are installed where I'm playing.

And again, the Rane 12 is a bit like this. Although I don't think you'd put two of them plus a mixer in a backpack. Of any size. If you don't want to wreck your back, that is.

The Behringer cue seems like an advancement on the Faderfox model, controllers that serve lots of little purposes for different people.

I'm thinking something more like the old Pioneer ecosystem, where you had small, medium and large CDJs, (from 200 to 1000) and various sizes of mixers too.

It's just about having some options. And also being able to buy something new, to keep things fresh.

 

Don’t worry about Serato jab, I was also critic there and I suposed you didn’t know about beh’ since these were one of the proposals from brands time ago (the other reloop and djtech afair…)

The point is… J1 motorized? (Split deck from s4)
There’s a fakemmercial about that. Sadly…

Rane 1/2?
Denon-like?
Phase HID native support?

There are options and proposals but NI seems so lost… even the D2+turntable (+ audio interface :facepalm: ) was that proposal but people asked for jogs… to later ask for ddj1000 support… to later ask for twelve support (and mk2 come with traktor dvs)…

Maybe it will be easy to ask for a partnership with turntable developer to get a dedicated unit… ohwait! That was Stanton SCS.1D and (old?) native wrecked it in favour of new timecode/audio dj interfaces…

Maybe second chance? Maybe get a partnership with Pioneer… ohwait! That was another mistake (djm-t1 > Z2… cdj2000 HID support…) so another broken path that become Rekordbox…

There aren’t too many options since NI wrecked it too many times. When the rumours of sale the division arised few brands were at news. Behringer and A&H, none of them have turntables or motorised controllers. Maybe Behringer should buy A&H and start developing class compliant advanced mixers based on xone line and buy a turntable brand outside the inMusic/Pioneer brands if still exists anyone…

Meanwhile these portability jogs are numark pt01 with Phase DVS.

If just someone get the Biz Markie (R.I.P) 7” technics and make them a mainstream product… but the most similar is the Rane One with tonearm gadget. Maybe Rane release a 1/2 with Traktor support, who knows?

There ‘s still room for certain amazing products and workflows but aside covid, NI was on the edge with the previous lay off and future seems going subscription model as days gone.

New hardware? They have hinted something new for the 25 anniversay but I’m not holding my breath. Hardly will be interesting or right priced IMO.

Modular controllers? Maybe they release a X1mk3 (they made a survey about that…) so go figure…

I dunno…



sorry about not linking these things but I’m lazy today and watching a long video in split view. If you are interested in something, please ask… and I will come in some moment with videos to all of these new proposals like rane with tonearm etc

Peace.

 

The Rane 12 is way too niche for this of course, it's a great match with serato, and laser focused on that audience.

The bigger picture I want to paint is that NI should have a focus. They kind of just... don't. D2 would shine with in-app stem separation. There are other DJ programs that do that. But those don't have dedicated controllers with tight intergration.

There is so much to build from that tight intergration. Soon the M1 chip will end up in cheap iPads, and then you have a case for something else than Pioneer and USB sticks. With M1 you have plenty of power to run anything that tractor can do, or could do.

Creating a complete set of options for DJs, however you do it, is a no-brainer to me.

And the whole thing is just about having a vision and a roadmap.

The D2/S8 four channel stem idea was very far ahead of its time. You need in-app stem separation for that to become understood and adapted.

All these things work if NI is looking at a 5-10 year roadmap. But on such a roadmap, you always have to keep in mind that for Traktor to survive, DJs like us have to prefer Traktor to other platforms and devices.

And the hardware-software intergration is key to that. Being able to grow from the all-in-one controller to something better than the shitty layout on Pioneer's hefty looking gear is something that traktor fans must want.

My friend just borrowed the latest pioneer mini controller, their S2 equivelent. He told me that the sound was terrible. Everything else was fine, but the attention to detail we're used to from NI isn't there.

I'm convinced Traktor has a lot of room to grow, but they'd need to focus and invest. And most of all, believe.

I think, when you imagine a series of Traktor gear focused on modules, if you decide to think "better than what is presently available" before you imagine it, you may start seeing it more clearly.

Serato is maybe a tad better off since they never did their own hardware, so they have a few partners trying their hand. Pioneer is worse off since at their core they're too bound by weird corporate strategies to be really good. Strategies such as making their cheap products bad, and also how they save up feature additions, so people will keep upgrading. The new Denon gear was a revelation, they just put everything they had into it, and keep making the firmware better.

Denon shows us that there's still a lot of room there. And their fanbase is growing. As long as their investors see this as a long game, they should become a major player, in time.

NI needs to see that. It feels clear that Traktor should be spun off from NI somehow, or the business arranged in such a way that the products get the focus, staff and funding they need, that the needs of the larger NI ecosystem don't keep pushing Traktor back, so it can't maintain growth.

Also, Goddaym I want those Biz Markie decks. I've been collecting a Sheisseload of 7"s, sometimes I do 7" sets, and those things are sooooo cool.

 

You don’t need an M1 for any of these. In fact M1 is an evolution from iPad pro chip but even my 2015 iPad mini can do spleeter stems offline (and export directly into NI stem format) and DjPlayer can play these.
About hardware if NI F1/D2 were class compliant I would buy one for that purpose long ago. I have a samson conspiracy (turned 90 degrees to simulate an F1) just waiting to start mapping it. I also need to buy the 5 year subscription from DjPlayer but I’m still doing tests and since there isn’t gigs yet, no hurry involved.

Nice. If NI made this standalone like M+ and DVS/Hid ready we will have something… even I prefer the other mockup with 8 pads and faders like F1. A matter of taste… (and workflow). I’m even considering buying a D2 and another 2012 mac mini just for glue them but then I remember I can build my own D2 version and just attach and iPhone and forget about it…

 

I’m thinking “on the fly” because that would be such a strong selling point, using separators much like you use eq now, without prep.
But of course, if you include offline separation in traktor, that is still a very strong feature, it just doesn’t work “in the moment” and creates a lot of work or proccessing time for those interested in the tech. So it would be a good feature, but live separation would be a feature that might make other DJs jealous.
I have a very large library, like 15k, and the tracks I’m likely to play come from a pool of like 2k songs. I haven’t started seriously trying stems because I’d need to process at least 100-200 tracks just to get a feel for the tech. Its a hurdle.
If traktor would do offline batch separation I would certainly pick those songs, press “proccess”, leave the computer running for an afternoon and then try my hand.
But with live separation, I think they’d sell a ton of stem controllers to taktor users old and new that just wanted to try their hand. And neither Denon nor Pioneer could do this, reasonably.
But I’m not sure if current processors can do this. RipX needs 12 minutes for a 5 minute track, the other separators I’ve used use cloud processing. I don’t know how good the dj apps that currently offer this are, I have yet to try.

Oh, and sorry to the OP for my derail. Honestly, your design just looks good, no comments, I’d like one.

 

Just tried Djay’s stem mixing on my ipad. It was on the fly. That kinda sets the bar. It sounded like balls, massive 96 kbps mp3 type artifacts. It was soooo much fun. I’d play out with it if I could.
Next up is trying out virtual dj.

 

To get a better feel for Alex’ idea, i pot the two together side by side:



I LOVE the loop in-out buttons, really miss those on S4 mk3. I think the word “master” has been replaced.
I never knew what many of the buttons on D2 do, the v2 layout looks much more rational. The screen buttons are missing. Those are confusing on d2 mk1, but I prefer buttons to touchscreens any day, djs are all about that muscle memory. So a button layout that is immediately understandable. I’d put that one on NI’s designers though, rational iconigraphy takes a lot of work.
and if they are reading, four identical-feeling small buttons (you have to be able to look away) are not good for muscle memory.

 

Of course realtime speeting makes a lotof sense but also sems from production since NI is primary based on that (Maschine/Komplete…) and of course NI has a avantgarde position BUT most traktor djs seem only want A>B mixing and not bells and whistles so, even with spleeter stems, maybe isn’t enough lucrarive for them. D2/S5 were discontinnued to put the effort on new mk2 series which btw weren’t enough for most of these A>B mixing users. Stem users jumped long ago… I’m here just because I want to believe NI will bring something in place at right moment but as days gone I’m less and less comfident and my focus in music have changed so I don’t need any NI software. I produce with Logic/iPad apps and (will) dj with DjPlayer or Vdj when the need came. Meanwhile just getting ready stem files and/or spletter stem based solutions.

In my opinion D2 mk2 without stems or spleeter stems will not make any sense so I don’t think it’s derailing the topic. Said that, there isn’t too much to comment at this point.

Final note as a clearification, maybe.
For realtime spleeting you need Bionic chip in iDevices but with Vdj my oldie late 2012 mac mini can handle without issue. That points you a path but I don’t expect NI taking it. I give them lots of resources months ago about the Silicon transition because I was worried about their awareness. The situation wasn’t maybe too bad but more than a year to get native compatibiity for ANYTHING isn’t also good IMO. NI asured being focused on it recently… which for me is going late to party… but I could be totally wrong, hopefully.

There’s still time to make things (due Silicon transition and due competition seems also unaware and lost) but only time will tell us if the wait was worth it or another nail in the coffin.

 

I must disagree here. Most Traktor users (and most DJs) want a simple experience.
When I started DJing, 3 band EQ wasn't standard on mixers. Many DJs don't use them much, not many would buy a mixer without them.
Having a niche, a story that describes how your company and products are different and better, that's essential. You don't buy a Traktor controller because you need every button, but you might buy the bigger controller because you *might* need - or want - to use the features.

I hear that you're a bit burned out from waiting. I don't mean to disrespect that. I hear you, and I feel the same way, up to a point.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. You need the tech to sell the machine. And the tech exists.

I tried both VirtualDJ and Djay yesterday. Both were terriffic fun. But VDJ is worse at things like loop detection, which is kind of essential to this kind of DJ. If you're doing mashup, you need to loop on the fly. Often the loops would be off, and I did not know how to fix them. Apparently flexible grids are not a priority over there.
I have much and growing respect for Virtual DJ, but they do seem to focus on areas others have neglected, such as video, karaoke and similar things. So it's very understandible that they don't have the same hyperfocus on making a seamless experience for technical DJs such as myself.

All in all, I got a similar feeling from Djay - lots of good features, stable, a great app for many, but I didn't find the things I need to be as well developed as in Traktor. Not the program as a whole, just the things I need.

I know a few DJs who left Traktor for Pioneer for convenience sake, but still miss it.

While we all love the Traktor layout, it's still a tough sell to take apart every DJ booth and bring lots of gear when you can get the same features on the installed Pioneer gear, with the USB stick in your pocket.

So I am pretty sure that Traktor needs to excite its users again. The old and the new. And they need to look beyond Berlin. Look at DJs that have fun with their gear. That experiment. Berlin is very very vinyl oriented, very much for keeping up appearances. When I saw NI gear on the festival circuit, it was usually DJs from France or the US.

There is so much that only Traktor gear can do. Or that Traktor gear is built for, while other gear is not.

Traktor gear still dominates the sales charts at Thomann. That's the big player in many parts of europe. So they're not dead, not by a long shot. Hopefully the will see that sticking to a plan and pushing ahead might grow their business and brand.

I know you disagree, and you've given up on all this. I respect that. So I'm gonna be hopeful for the both of us, that the nice people at NI HQ are paying attention, and thinking ahead, and finding some cause for optimism.

If you mean that NI may be late to the party for realtime stem separation, I don't think so. It's normal that smaller players charge ahead with cutting-edge tech. I think the window for that will still be open for another year or so. If Pioneer gets there first, the game is over. But they're usually last with everything, so I'm not too worried there.
As far as M1 support goes, I don't disagree. But I was just looking at the plugin folders in my Ableton native beta. The beta is running native and can only run native VSTs. It can run all AUs because MacOS handles those on a system level, puts them all in wrappers. But the non-native AU plugins are weird.
Thing is, my Native instrument plugins are not native. but neither are my iZotope plugins, or my Arturia plugins, or my Roland Cloud plugins.

So I agree that NI is shitting the bed with native apps, but so are most others that have a large portfolio of software.

NI does have a newer codebase in the iOS version of traktor, but as you can see, it's not fully developed. But what it does have is, of course, rock solid.

So I'm not surprised that traktor isn't moving quickly to native code, and I would not be surprised if the current codebase would never reach native, that it will come once they've fully built out the new codebase, including whatever features have been developed over there. However that may be going.

I suspect they may not want to have too many features exclusive to the iPad, and therefore unavailable to the most expensive NI controllers.

This is my kremlinology for the day

So having thought about it, I'm sure something big is coming. I just hope they keep at it, so it arrives fairly soon.

Sv.

 

I just don’t care anymore, don’t worry.

I can (should better said…) build what I need gluing cheap “pieces” from here and there to accomplish my goals. Standalone machine will be great but probably never will fulfill my needs (like sp404mk2 neither) due I wasn’t never the NI target market and we still need to know what’s their actual focus anyways…

I left this forum not so long ago and returned due a mail alert on “byebye post” but maybe I should delete my account like at Serato forums. I will consider it one more time as healthy exercice.

Anyways, best wishes and I hope NI gets something out of the hat and regular users keep satisfied. It’s too late for me but it’s liberating more than sad.



See you!

 

Yeah I hope you get a good set of gear going there. Thanks for the chat!