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Impossible to play live:CPU utilization grows with number of sounds and groups even when not playing

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Alejandro Tomsic, Nov 4, 2018.

  1. muitosabao

    muitosabao NI Product Owner

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    443
    Good thread, guys. Yes, this is another gigantic shortcoming and often requested feature. There was never, as far as i know, any official answer to it, so we don't even know if this is going to be possible in the future, or if it's even on the roadmap. But it's such an obvious feature, that it hurts that it's not there.
    On a side note, i'm moving (with great bitterness) to Bitwig, and since there is a JAM template for it, I kind of have that now: mk3 controls maschine instance inside Bitwig (drumkits and sound effects) and JAM controls bitwig (synths). So i can play and jam them independently.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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  2. loachm

    loachm NI Product Owner

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    2,051
    Lock States do save bypass states of internal and external effects - so there you go...
     
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  3. Alejandro Tomsic

    Alejandro Tomsic New Member

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    17
    Yes, that's an alternative. I personally find it very cumbersome to keep track of exactly what is bypassed and not in a project with large amounts of instruments and effects.
     
  4. muitosabao

    muitosabao NI Product Owner

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    443
    Interesting tip. But sounds too risky.
     
  5. loachm

    loachm NI Product Owner

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    2,051
    Well, with every live situation some testing, if it'll work for you on stage, is mandatory, as well as preparing things in a way, that things aren't cumbersome (e.g., as it has been mentioned before, bouncing all static effects).

    Lock States can be triggered via midi messages (either program changes or midi notes), so I'm quite certain, that a capable midi controller will be able to provide the necessary info, what is triggered (and also independent from the Maschine controller, which is probably needed for other stuff on stage). Perhaps you guys still have a MK1 or Mk2, which would be perfect for such a scenario. This or a cheap Nanopad with good old tape labels might do the trick.
     
  6. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,371
    I tried that lock state thing, it does help, specifically for very long FX chains. However, from my testing (not scientific at all) for projects with 2 or 3 FX in each sound it barely makes a difference, only around 10-15%.

    I loaded groups until my laptop CPU maxed out (only 6, geez...), then disabled all the FX, the CPU usage difference was enough to make the project barely playable... which pretty much means at any time it can overload the CPU. So I would say the lock state thing is not a reliable method in most situations
    ...
    [​IMG]
    On the CPU graph theres hardly a difference.

    My laptop specs:
    MBP 13" - OSX 10.13 High Sierra - 2,7Ghz i5 (dual-core) - 8GB Ram.

    I am curious to know how the efficiency is like under windows.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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  7. loachm

    loachm NI Product Owner

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    2,051
    ...at times erratic for no obvious reasons. :D
     
  8. Tomess

    Tomess NI Product Owner

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    369
    One more reason to implement the VST 3 standart into Maschine. Then you don't have to worry much about such things because VST 3 disable itself from CPU using when no sound went through (in theory, of course). Cubase does a fine job in this field, as i can tell from the big orchester templates my clients are working with, with tons of FX on every channel without stressing out the CPU. Unfortunately, Cubase is not intend to use it in a live sitiation, so there are many disadvantages which makes it impossible for me to use it in this context.
     
  9. muitosabao

    muitosabao NI Product Owner

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    443
    Good job, D. Will check on windows as soon as i can.
     
  10. loachm

    loachm NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,051
    ...currently I'm having a crazy CPU load in both Maschine standalone and Reaktor standalone (not running at the same time). Things, that would usually run with a load of 40-50%, are now at 80-90% and make my laptop unusable for the time-being. And it's, of course, that stupid Windows Modules Installer Worker. :mad: So, on some occasions on Windows computers, these crazy CPU spikes might not be caused by the NI apps themselves.
     
  11. Nikal Might

    Nikal Might NI Product Owner

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    123
    The CPU load on Windows is pretty atrocious. In Reaper, I can use loads of fairly CPU-heavy VSTs and it won't cause dropouts at all, but Maschine can't handle much of anything which is a real pain. The multicore doesn't seem to work very well, so I have loads of cores not doing much of anything despite having 6 physical cores to play with.
     
  12. dvoa78

    dvoa78 NI Product Owner

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    130
    Let's test this to the max on Windows.

    How ever so far i didn't have any problems with the the 2.7.10
    Oké some plugins.
    But i don't think it's an Maschine issue more an Windows issue something in the settings from Windows it self.
    I believe.

    Let's see how far it can go on Windows.
     
  13. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,371
    6-Core laptop or desktop? Dont you get a performance similar to mine on post #15 ?
     
  14. muitosabao

    muitosabao NI Product Owner

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    443
    upload_2018-11-6_23-45-8.png

    i7 16RAM Surface Book 2.
    It actually held pretty well with all the groups with big fx chains until it started dropping. But turning them off didn't have big impact on the load. But a bit puzzled on the CPU load as you can see on the top image.

    upload_2018-11-6_23-47-1.png
     

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  15. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,371
    Well... Seems like its same behavior both on windows and mac.
    The usage is also the same since it only uses real cores(4) and not the "Logical Processors(8)" : 50% in system = 100% in Maschine.
    I think this means Maschine does not support Hyperthreading.
     
  16. Alejandro Tomsic

    Alejandro Tomsic New Member

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    17
    I've continued working with the idea I mentioned in my previous message, and it works well and it is not cumbersome, I suggest it.
     
  17. motionscreen

    motionscreen NI Product Owner

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    161
    If you´re speaking of the idea of using several Maschine instances within Ableton:
    - is there are way to enable or disable the Maschine plugin by Midi (controller) or Key?
    - how do you switch the plugin instances you are controlling from your Maschine hardware?
     
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  18. Alejandro Tomsic

    Alejandro Tomsic New Member

    Messages:
    17
    yes.

    Yes, in the post were I discussed the way to do it, I showed in an image the button to turn on/off a Maschine plugin in Ableton. You can assign the on/off button of each maschine instance to a different button in your midi controller. I personally use the pads of an inexpensive akai mpk mini II in control mode to do that. and also assign the knobs to the volume of each instance (in Ableton) to mix between Maschine instances.

    When running multiple instances of Maschine within Ableton, press Shift + Plugin (top-left of the controller), and a list of available instances to control will pop up in the left screen of the controller. you choose from them.

    Hope this helps! Let me know if anything is not clear in the previous post too.
     
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  19. Nikal Might

    Nikal Might NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    123
    It's a desktop i7 5820k. Windows says Maschine isn't using much CPU at all. One core is being overloaded while the rest of the cores are barely doing anything.
     
  20. Tarekith

    Tarekith NI Product Owner

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    578
    Maschine is not really multi core optimized sadly.