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In A Bit Of A Jam

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by tempsperdu, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. The Sarge

    The Sarge NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    591
    D-One
    but what me makes wondering the most was:
    JAM was on the same day in all german store out-of-stock and also on german NI-website!
    that normaly only happens when something is totally wrong with a product or taken out, cause a newer model is there and no grace-period-buys (or something like this) happen
    for me JAM was not on the 1st place when coming out, but seen last Xmas some vids to inform me and looks greater than I stored in my "memory", but due to private things I moved the buy latest to Xmas2020 - and now this "out-of-stock"-problem
    so I´ve to answer your question "You guys really believe that?:eek:" with a sadly but very big: YES!
    hope to hear something official about the not-possible-to-buy-JAM-situation

    PEACE
     
  2. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,381
    OK!
    You still want to buy a product that you just found out reached EOL (End Of Life)? You're a brave one Sir, it's still around in some e-tailors so your out-of-stock problem can be fixed with some searching, there's a bunch on ebay too so you can buy it if you really want one. The EOL part of the subject isn't fixable tho.
     
  3. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    480
    Well, the price of NI items usually drops down considerably when it is about to end. And that has not happened in case of Jam. It could disapear from shops because simply something went wrong with the production.....

    It will be EOL one day, maybe soon. It may get redesigned, but I guess there must be some kind of replacement, when NI decides to stop production.
     
  4. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,381
    ??
    ??
    [​IMG]
     

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  5. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    480
    I see. :-( Fortunately, I have one. So, till it runs, it is OK. I may survive few years and in meantime NI hopefully brings something new.
    Touch sensitive pads and at least tiny displays would be fine. And a bit longer touch stripes with finer LED indicator resolution.

    Or something completely new, like you mentioned - big touchscreen.
     
  6. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,234
    Which, believe it or not, was announced quite literally years ago in 2017, and my assumed availability of it was one of the reasons why I bought a Jam. Imagine my surprise when after years that it still wasn't available and was released out of the blue the other day. IMO, it seems like this is avoiding accusations of false advertising by delivering it prior to discontinuing it.

    Given the "I hate Ideas view, just remove Ideas view, nobody uses Ideas view" comments I regularly see, they'll probably hold those up as justification for either removing it or not expanding it any further.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,211

    I can see why you don't get on with it and that's fair enough because it only makes sense when you start to work a certain way but in conjunction with a MK3 it can make some things so much easier and quicker and staggeringly with the announcement of clips then it made it seem like it really was going to start living up to some of its promise because a lot of its drawbacks were the same as everything Maschine... the software and it's lack of development.

    So now after indications that the type of shenanigans that marred NI's relationship with its users was seeming like a thing of the past here we go again and if I'm right then the very thing Jam in theory was created for it won't see any benefit from. You couldn't make this up. Talk about two steps forward six steps back and let's rub salt in the wounds while we're at it.

    If there was to be a development to continue on a controller usable for the ideas / song view paradigm them OK people would still feel peed off at having to get a new one to do what was supposed to happen with Jam but that's nothing compared to how abused they feel now so if there is some kind of usable sense behind all this then let's hear it.

    I really pray that the two steps forward six steps back paradigm isn't going to take over the software development but I'm now sceptical.

    I'm with macchinista in thinking there is far from a robust conceptual framework behind much if any of the NI world. A damn shame when in theory it should be easily leading the pack rather than 'succeeding' almost in spite of itself.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. Kaldosh

    Kaldosh NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,907
    I remember well this announcement, as well as features improvements that where on the road map. I , like you, have been lurking around looking for updates.
    In the meantime , I kept using my Jam and still love the device very much. Very customisable,. Lightweight and efficient.
    I actually use ideas view at every start or my project , I create all my patterns and scene in it, even programming few automations , and then, switch to arrangement view to lay down all my scenes. I like that workflow, works well for me. And since I acquired a KK keyboard, it is crazy how all those devices unlock different creative potentials.. the main issue around this device and some of the others is that, many of us where expecting some doors to be opened...but until now, they never where.
    I think there is some madness in how fast devices and programs support gets dropped. The reason is easy to understand, but lots of product are loosing value and Interest so quickly when a bit more development and improvements would make them timeless like some hardware's are.
    Sometime stuff end up open source at least,leaving opportunities to old users to keep moving on with some dreams.
    Those are the same guys always buying the stuff when it comes out , mad at gear, seeing their true potentials and having the will to keep improving them...the same way some old synths got midified and moded many years after.
    Running a business in an healthy manner is essential but depending in which domain you evolve, there is always a spirit around it..

    Anyway, I love my Jam
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
    • Like Like x 4
  9. BobF3

    BobF3 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    102
    From a non-Jam owner:

    While I appreciate that NI is focused on musically inclined creatives, I also understand that they are a business that has to profit to remain viable and continue providing tools for us.

    I also understand why they need to be secretive about the details of their plans for future development of both new and existing products.

    If Jam, or any other product, is profitable for NI, I fully expect that the product will continue to be supported and developed.

    Jam users have my sincere hope that Jam will continue as I also hope Jam users will hope with me for the future of KKS and Maschine MK3
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,234
    With that said, the Jam was sold on unfulfilled promises of what was to come. NI isn't a startup, Maschine was an established long-term line of products at the time of the Jam's release. There's really no excuse for how the situation was handled, especially if you were aware of the business realities, which I have been made aware of, meaning I can only describe this situation as "unacceptable" to existing customers and prospective buyers. The word "unethical" also comes to mind.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
    • Like Like x 5
  11. BobF3

    BobF3 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    102
    Do we *know* what the situation is, or are we speculating?
     
  12. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    480
    Well, I like Jam even as it is. It is not perfect, but still it is valuable tool for me. It allows me do things faster/easier/creativier.....

    At the other side, I do understand frustration of users, who bought Jam on promises it wil do things in future.....

    Anyway, I hope some kind of replacement will come. Maybe totally different Jam.
     
  13. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,234
    I personally know what the situation is because I've been personally informed of it in private. I can't say more at present.
    Yep, the Jam really is excellent as-is, and a bottomless well of untapped potential, in fact conceptually as a product it's one of NI's shining moments. Pity about the impending processor architecture changes and necessity for new drivers on Apple Silicon and ARM, and inevitable OS updates, all of which mean the Jam has a frustratingly limited future. The Jam is a majorly important aspect of my Maschine workflow and it works superbly, which is why this situation is so frustrating.

    As I've said in private and public: I would have purchased a hypothetical Jam MK2 even at a MK3-level price point on day one if it meant being able to reliably use the product line for many years to come. It adds a huge amount of value to the Maschine workflow, and is a major USP versus competitors.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
    • Like Like x 3
  14. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,211
    There's no good reason for 'speculation'. It's an insult to both the users and the company for users not to be told what's going on with tools they have bought and how that is going be affected in the future. This is supposed to be a professional company not a bunch of dodgy backstreet traders.
    So doubly insulting that we believed them when they announced a new openess and transparency.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
    • Like Like x 4
  15. cygnuszwaan

    cygnuszwaan New Member

    Messages:
    5
    I'd just like some reassurance that my Jam (which I bought full price, brand new, only 2 days ago, the day before it was announced that it was EOL) will be usable for its intended purpose for at least a reasonable period of time. As it stands I'm very happy with its functionality in its present state; while a bit disappointing, I can understand no further development. But PLEASE give an indication of how long I can expect my NEW hardware to work with its native software.

    I bought a Maschine controller at full retail price. If it's soon to be nothing more than a midi control surface, I see that as a bait-and-switch.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  16. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,211
    It still hasn't officially been announced as EOL though given its unavailability for some time it's hard not to think NI knew it was and some might easily say that that opens up ethical questions.
     
  17. GoKeez

    GoKeez NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    91
    As an entrepreneur myself I can’t agree that any company owes consumers any insight to their roadmaps as it relates to product development but I do know that track record and support history are chief factors for informed consumers as it relates to future decisions.

    I bought Jam for what it was the day I bought it. Promises are for lovers. However, if a product I purchase as hyped as Jam can be abandoned by NI so swiftly...it gives me exponentially less confidence in their commitment to excellence.

    Akai did this kind of **** so much it pushed me right into Mk3. Now this....smh
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,211
    I bought Jam for what it did as I already knew the promised song mode wasn't going to appear anytime soon but I didn't expect it to be EOL within 2 years with no replacement, If I'd bought one recently I'd be beyond ballistic.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. cygnuszwaan

    cygnuszwaan New Member

    Messages:
    5
    I bought it for what it was too, and that's good enough for me (actually it's terrific). My concern is that in a short time it will no longer be that thing, once the Maschine software drops support for it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. ALDREAD

    ALDREAD NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,476
    You never know, it could become so rare it increases in value .
     
    • Funny Funny x 2