Innovating the Kontakt library

I've just been through every single patch in the K5 library in order to convert them all to Kore format. Doing this has very much confirmed to me something that has been bugging me for some time regarding the library that comes with Kontakt: it is very imbalanced and a bit boring tbh. There is an overwhelming preponderance of bread and butter and Vintage instrument sounds with very little really going beyond scratching the surface of what could be done using scripting, AET and the full capabilities of Kontakt 5. At least when Kontakt 3 came out there was a whole bank of interesting and creative patches making use of the scripting to show off the new technology, and there was also Kontakt Experience bank that did the same, as well as several third party banks that took this even further such as SonicCouture's Scriptorium and Abstract Instruments collections. Similarly we have sound designers like Simon Stockhausen and Tonehammer (formerly) pushing the envelope in terms of sound design. I think with this in mind the Kontakt library needs some major innovation and some fresh thinking and would very much hope that in the next version there is some renewed focus on the library.

 

Your point is taken, however, the factory library is really intended to be a starter collection. A sampler sold without a library is pointless. It's like a car sold without an engine. So the sounds included there are intended to be enough to get you started, but the expectation -- particularly if you are a professional and plan to extend Kontakt in whatever stylistic direction you prefer -- is that you're going to do things with it and extend it in whatever ways suit your style.

Third-party libraries like you mentioned do exactly that, and NI's intention is to allow companies like that to flourish, and not to negate their necessity of existence.

I actually find a lot of useful stuff in the Kontakt factory library and I use it often. However, I augment it with dozens of other libraries too.

 

That the library is a starter collection doesn't imply that it has to be what Kymeia says... something only scratching the surface. The sample library itself is huge and has some really good samples, the nki's themselves are mostly uninteresting. Look at what the Koreline packs North India, Sax&Brass and Vintage Instruments do with almost the exact same samples. You can save the Kontakt patches in them as nki's and they are far more useful then the nki's of the Kontakt Library. That's just not cool, it's a 40GB sample collection without really good programming.

Last month I spent three days finding the synth lead I liked most in a song I'm working on and I ended up using a Jupiter lead from Logic 7.2 Pro. It only uses 6.8MB of samples. You don't need an overload of samples for a specialized virtual instrument.

In some cases you do, I'm a happy owner of SC's Array Mbira, Pan Drums, Novachord, Piano FX and Skiddaw Stones

 

Of course. But imho it should be more than that, it should also show what Kontakt is capable of and be creative and musically diverse. Back when K2 came out with KSP etc this is what happened with many instruments showing off the technology and Kontakt Experience even more so - now Kontakt Experience is not sold and the current library, while I'm not denying its value as a starter collection, seems to me to be falling short of fully representing what Kontakt can do and while I understand that NI would wish to encourage the third party developers at the same time they should also be leading the way.

 

Well I am also of the opinion that it should cover all the bases/basics.

But it is not designed to be a specialist library, but much more of an all rounder to cater to as large an audience as possible.

If you need specialist instruments, then you can always augment this with 3rd party libs or dig in deeper and program your own. E.g. If I want more detailed horns, then there is always Chris Hein Horns... but not everybody wants 40GB of horns taking up their HD. And the same also goes for guitar, or cinematic percussion, or any instrument basically.

Otherwise add up all of libraries out there... you would have a 4 terrabyte or larger library just to make sure that everyone was happy. And even then there would still be a musical genre that was missed.

 

It looks like Kymeia is not talking about a bigger sample library, just better/more nki's.

 

Ok, I think I understand now.

But why create the same instrument over and over again with many variations and effects and whatnot?

Surely it is not too difficult to add a reverb or an effect yourself for the desired effects, rather than have 5 or 20 or so variations of the same thing?

The same with scripting: is it not the user who should decide how they want to control their instruments, since we all have differing tastes, sounds/styles and work methods?

 

No you're not getting it. I'm not talking about a bigger library (in terms of GB at least) or more variations on a single instrument (I don't know how that idea came up) but a more diverse library with more instruments that show what you can do with scripting and fx (and maybe also AET) to create complex and interesting sounds. As they did with the Kontakt 2 library and Kontakt Experience set - it just feels like the library since K3 has become a bit stale to me - functional yes but not much that really knocks me out musically or creatively which is a shame considering the size.

 

Maybe it had something to do with you mentioning other 3rd party libraries and sound designers.

So you want more instruments, but you don't want it to be any bigger than it currently is?
So are you talking about removing some instruments then so that it keeps the same size? :S

Define interesting?
Some people thing a dubstep wobble is interesting or some powerful supersaw.
But for me this is not interesting at all.
Like I said in my previous post, you cant expect every single musical genre to be catered for.
That is why 3rd party libraries exist.

This is an interesting comment.

Personally I have found that having too many wow sounds can be a bad thing.
Because then they can tend to stick out and not blend nicely in a mix.
They can also make a piece sound really muddy.

IDK if you have ever heard of Omnisphere, but that has a lot of "wow" patches.
Now if you pick a whole bunch of wow patches and stack them all together, it sounds like crap.
Sometimes even using just a single complex patch, you need to turn some of the layers off to make it fit better.
That's why bread + butter patches work.

Also wow patches may sound all impressive and flashy, but they are often easily identifiable too.
You know when you are listening to a song and you recognise that loop or that sample, because they stand right out?
IDK about you, but personally I prefer people listening my music, rather than concentrating on where they have heard "that sound" before.

Well you don't have to install the factory library!
Many people choose not to.


Anyway I would suggest you either find some 3rd party stuff more to your tastes, or maybe even try to create some of your own sounds too.
Because Kontakt is immensely powerful, and can be as deep as you want it to be once you start digging for yourself.

Perhaps try using it as more than just a sample player only.

 

Do you have Logic 9? I found out that the EXS Library is as much standard but has slightly better sounds, even more after converting them to nki's. It's not just possibilites or variations, it's also quality. As I mentioned earlier, Kontakt Sax&Brass is more interesting then the sax & brass nki's in the K4 library.
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Most of the synths are really yuck
World a bit better. Piano's not so great.
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The synths in the library are too specific for me and most of them I would not use. You're right about the too many wow sounds, but too few isn't good either. We both make our own sounds, it would just be a good thing to have a better programmed library to save us the time. Some Vintage sounds are even out of tune.

Talking about bad programming: I used all of my jampoints at IK Multimedia and threw a little money in to get some stuff in that group sale, I wanted to try some SampleTank XT packs. There was this nice upright piano with only two layers but I really liked the sound... The high velocity layer had bad timing and gain differences per sample. I told support, they said: what do you mean? So I emailed mp3's of scales and chords with NI's upright after it to show them how it's done... never heard back from them. And SampleTank doesn't look like I can do anything about bad timing and gain.

 

Honestly, a sampler is not the place to look for good synth leads. Samples are great for replicating instruments that synthesizers can't do. But a sampler lead sound is a replication of a synthesizer. Why would you want there are a million great synthesizer VIs, some are made by NI, others are free, or my favorite, Korg's Legacy Collection. I just don't understand why NI keeps putting out "retro machines" and expansions for Kontakt that are basically bastardizations of a tiny subset of things that Reaktor can do much better. BUT, Kontakt is easily a better front end for composers (as to technicians), so NI really needs to build a synthesis engine into Kontakt, and be done with it. I was kind of disgusted at the announcement of Retro.

 

One aspect of sampling is that one can basically transform any sound on earth into a playable instrument, be it everyday objects, field recordings, instrumental artifacts and so much more.
Then we can sample textures created with a combination of Plug-Ins/Hardware Instruments using very convoluted procedures to create very unusual sounds. None of these 2 aspects of sampling are covered in the Factory Library, maybe that is the point Kymeia is making...

 

Hi Simon,
I understand what you are saying, but for me the argument is still that it makes little sense to have NI try and cater to every musical genre under the sun.
Especially when the tools to create your own sounds are right there in front of you.

 

Well, all they cater for imo is a very mainstreamish aspect of sampling, recycling things to death - but that's a problem of the entire music industry not only NI.
Many Kontakt users are incapable of producing their own sounds, they just want tools to compose their stuff whatever genre it may be, if you give them more inspired and unusual tools, their compositions will become more innovative and interesting, the change has to start at the root...

 

I do agree that all factory scripts have a CHRONIC lack of comments inside them, explaining what each part does. Not to mention the structure of scripts is not always very nice to look at.

 

I understand, but is that really NI's job?
They may have built the engine, but it's up to the users to take the vehicle where they want to go.
And as for giving users more tools, what more tools do they need?
Perhaps if users cannot make the sounds that they want, then they should look into purchasing some additional sounds from people like yourself.

Absolutely, wholeheartedly agree with this.

 

Lol, it also surprised me that after a three day search through all my synth leads (quite a lot in Komplete 7 and Logic 9) I ended with a sampled one.

The idea of Kontakt's sample library is to have a vast collection of instruments that sound a lot like real instruments. And since there's a big market for vintage drum computer and synths sounds, (I'm using 4 Jupiter 8 sounds from Logic 7 in this song, tweaked in Kontakt) I understand the retro machines concept.

I don't have money to buy everything nor the knowledge to make virtual synth sounds like these Jupiter 8 sounds so I'm happy with these samples
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The first makes me think of that guy who asked for sampled doors in the Kontakt library
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Agreed.

 

"any sound on earth" ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYuHTHGEqfU&feature=youtu.be

aip

 

aip,
It's not the first or only sample pack of its type.
But thanks for confirming my point about the unusefulness of having every conceivable sound sampled.

 

de nada