Instrument on one midi channel reacting to CC on another channel

I can't get my head around this one...

I am using Kontakt from inside SONAR v2.1, as a DXi instrument.

I have two instruments set up in Kontakt, one is set to receive on MIDI channel 1 and the other on MIDI channel 2.

On both instruments I have created a modulation with CC #7 as the source and Amplifier volume as destination.... so that both instruments will react to incoming volume cc7 controllers. This works fine.

My problem is that the CC sent to one of the channels now affects both instruments. So if one instrument is fading out and the other is fading in, the two volume ramps has a fight between them, causing "stuttering" volumes (because both instruments are responding the volume changes sent to each of them).

My instruments are definitely set to receive on Channels 1 and 2. Not omni. But still, if I activate the SONAR track that sends to channel 1 and I touch the Mod-wheel or some keys on my external keyboard, I can see that both instruments "blink" to indicate that they are receiving incoming MIDI messages. So somehow, everything SONAR sends to Kontakt is somehow going to all channels inside Kontakt, and not just to the selected channel.

Anybody know how to rectify this??

Thanks in advance,

- Bjorn Lynne

 

Hi Bjorn - I think I've come across your name before in search engines...?

Firstly, I don't use a keyboard controller with SONAR/Kontakt, so my experience might not be relevant. But it assures that I have to do things very clinically, at any rate.

I just did a test;

Fretless Bass = Instrument 1 in Kontakt, Track 1 in SONAR

Synth Pad = Instrument 2, Track 2 SONAR

Each Instruments' Volume Knob is wired to CC7.

I tried 3 different things: first, I drew in the controllers on CC7 in the Piano Roll. I cleared those and assigned SONAR's Volume Envelopes. Cleared those, then selected "Create Track Envelope/MIDI" from the right-click menu - this allows you to set the exact channel/CC for the envelope.

Anyway,They all crossfaded perfectly smoothly. So I wonder if there is some kind of OMNI message coming from your keyboard? My brother had a crazy thing happen to him yesterday at his studio; The keyboard controller started randomly controlling parameters in Reason all of a sudden - even though no "MIDI Learn" functions were on. He figured this was because it's a rather old keyboard (Korg T1?) and it's becoming MIDI-incontinent, or the internal battery is dying...

Sorry, that's the best I can do. Good luck!

 

Hi,

I checked this sometimes ago, as something similiar was discussed in another thread. There seems to be a difference, whether you use the MIDI remote(learn) option or the the 'external sources->MIDI-CC' option in the context menu. In the first case, Kontakt ignores the MIDI channel of the CC. If you know your CC number and use the second approach, it seems to work well.

Alexander

 

Hi Bjorn,

nice to meet another ex_amiga scener here

First off, the midi jack always blinks on incoming midi events on every instrument, the channel doesn't matter here.

Can you confirm if Alexander's way worked out (manually setting Midi CC's)?

Regards,
Ronny

 

Hey, Bjorn! You fall asleep over there?

 

Hey guys, thanks for your tips on this one.

I did set up the CC controllers using the "External Controllers -> midi CC", not with the "learn" function.

I looked a bit closer into this and I actually found that it wasn't happening exactly as I had described. I had also set up a controller CC1 (modwheel) to extend the timing of the ADSL envelope, so that when I raised the modwheel, the sound got a slower attack and release time. I *also* had an external sources -> MIDI CC7 applied to the volume.

This worked fine, but when I sent controllers on one channel, they would really start to interfere with the behaviour of the instruments on a different channel.

After a lot of head scratching (and posting here), I went to the "structure" button and looked through the "groups", "zones in" folders there and deleted all the CC controllers I had set up. This got rid of the problem for now, but of course doesn't solve the problem permanently. It seems I haven't totally understood how the "groups", "zones in" system works, particularly with CC controllers, because something that was sent to one channel was *definitely* interfering with a different channel, and it must have been because of this grouping stuff.

I'm going to have to read up properly on this another day, but right now I'm too busy to study it in detail.

Thanks anyway for the info about the MIDI jacks lighting up on all channels when data is coming in only on one channel. This is useful information; at least now I know that Sonar isn't doing anything wrong and sending data to several channels at the same time when it shouldn't be. I wonder why Native decided that all MIDI jacks should light up when data is coming in only on one channel? That doesn't strike me as a particularly bright idea. Wouldn't it be much better to have only the jack with the correct channel light up?

Kind regards,
--
Bjorn Lynne

 

I used to have a similar problem. I.e set the mod wheel to affevt the filter and it would end up affecting every filter in each instrument.

If you change the name of the group in the group editor at the top of the instrument then this solves the problem.

There is a tutorial on the NI site about groups should you need more info.

 

Good to see some demosceners around here

I can confirm this strange behaviour. If you have modulation changes with the same MIDI-CC on different channels, they will effect each other or only one channel gets modulated.

The only workaround seems to use different controllers for each modulation that will happen simultaneously with other channels. Not very comfortable.

Moonhead: Changing the group names didn't help.

If you other ideas or workarounds, please write them here.

 

This matters for users of Cubase 5.1 (perhaps others too):

Make sure that the content of your MIDI parts has the right channel number, this applies for effects and notes. If you switch to list mode, make the left table a bit wider to see the channel number.
Selecting all and holding down the ALT-key while entering a new number
will set the value for all events.

Channel numbers for notes and effects get easily messed
up when you copy parts from one channel to another.

 

No, that can't be the source of the problem on my setup. I'm using SONAR, and when a track is set to a certain MIDI channel, then everything on that track gets put to that MIDI channel, even if the actual MIDI events have different channels.

Besides, if the problem was that the data was coming to Kontakt on the *wrong* channel, then only the wrong channel should respond to it. My problem is that the right *and* the wrong channel(s) respond to the CC messages.

- Bjorn

 

Sorry, the channel number doesn't seem to be the cause.

To track the problem down, I've created a Multi Instrument
with 3 Instruments and 3 MIDI channels with modulation data.

For the first 2 channels the modulation works,
but the 3rd one doesn't react when the others play.
http://simonv.com/music/kontakt_cc_problem.mp3
(first solo, how it should sound, then all)

If you want to try yourself, here's the Kontakt, Cubase and MIDI file:
http://simonv.com/music/kontakt_cc_problem.zip

Sofware used: Cubase VST 5.2 and Kontakt 1.2.1.009

I hope someone at NI has a clue what's going on.

 

I have this problem too.

I have a multi with violins on channel 3 and a piano on channel 4. The piano is set so that CC 64 controls whether the "pedal on" or "pedal off" samples play. However, this affects the way my violin patch plays, even though there is nothing associated with CC64 in my violin patch. The CC64 data is on channel 4 only.

 

I have a similar problem with Console host;
I have seen ont their forum that the problem is related to host sending CC to all VSTi channels, and that previous version worked fine.

if I don't assign CC7 and CC10 with Console, there is no problem for these two controllers.

Maybe it's the case for Sonar too ?

 

Hi there

On my hard and suffering way to find a solution on how i can control from one Track channel all instruments in a Multi on different midi channels, I stranded here
But to make it short, when I create two instruments 1+2 in a Multi, one assigned to mid ch.1 the other to ch.2 and I than start to move the volume fader from Track 1(midi-ch.1) only the volume knob of Instr.1(midi-ch.1) starts to move, of course.
But now!!! when I select on both the midi group option and than assign on each the groups again to: Instr.1->midi.ch.1 and Instr.2->midi-ch.2 and than start to move the vol.-slider of Track1 still set to send on midi.ch.1 also on Instr.2(midi.ch2) the volume knob moves the same like on Instr.1.
So any ideas? Is it me, Cubase or Kontakt? Any suggestion are desired.

thanks

10.3.4
SX 2.2.0
Kontakt 1.5.2

P.S.
When Im talking of the volume knob I mean the one in the instrument header