Is pionneer about to beat traktor and serato into submission?

http://djtechtools.com/2015/09/10/pioneer-dj-reveals-rekordbox-dj-4-0-ddj-rx-ddj-rz-controllers/

it looks as if pioneer are moving to completely dominate the dj booth.

If they get the DVS right and it works well, as im sure it will what will be the point of running traktor or serato when the software will likely be adopted by most and definatley adopted by the pro's the world over.

so if the software is better, the controllers are better and of course the cdj/xdj are the industry standard, which will all talk to rekord box seamlessly with no complicated gear change overs or gaps in the music or worries of incompatablitly why wouldnt you move over??? after all rekord box is a fantastic music organisational tool by all accounts.

i am watching this one closely, thoughts? (sorry about the grammar lol)

 

while rooting around i just caught sight of this, this is a horrible looking toy - look at the pio gear side by side, i cant see traktor making it through the next two years tbh and i have purchased everything NI have offered but stopped short of an s8. Sure stems is new and exciting but ultimatley wont get used in most live situations its all becoming bedroom stuff/mobile dj material.

 

WTF ...

 

Colour me indifferent. I don't use Pio kit so using the software isn't something I will ever do *unless* NI causes my gear to stop working with Traktor and Pioneer make their software work with everything, but Pio opening up RBDJ is about as likely as me dating Kelly Brook, so in that scenario I'd end up with VDJ anyway.

I don't think Pio's shiny new software will destroy NI or Serato, it will be most likely a closed eco system for Pio users only and there is more than enough people using other hardware for NI and Serato to cater for should they wish to use that business model.

 

Just my opinion... I feel as if Pioneer is giving you the option and here is why.

Club standard seems to be a DJM 900 and a pair of 2000NXS w/ turntables as an option in some cases. The DJM 850 and 900 have a Traktor Certified soundcard and both mixers have been added to the officially supported list of hardware by Serato earlier this year. That being said, since Traktor has become a native 64 bit application Pio could update their ASIO drivers. Given 64 bit drivers you'd be able to use ALL of Traktor features as well as use other 64 bit standards like Live and Mascine and not hick up running on Windows as you'd be able to utilize more than 1 core and 2 Gb of system memory in your laptop... but I digress.

I find that the HID integration on my pair of 2000NXS is tighter than my old 900s and change overs are really easy.

Traktor has an advanced looping station that no other software has incorporated into it, giving you live set/producer feel. Controllerism is nice on my DJM using an X1 and 2x F1. It was one of the reason why I got into Traktor, the ease of assembling remix sets from Maschine and play a set that is more improvised.

This is the reason why I can't see Traktor going anywhere, but Rekordbox DJ may give Serato a good run for its money if it has gains stable and tight DVS support.

 

A good point, but there's an *if* in there regarding Pio updating the drivers anytime soon and Traktor then working with said drivers. From NI's point of view it would be daft not to have mixers supported by them, however will Pioneer care about this state continuing?

Gotta love loops with Traktor

I agree with this and I also think that this is the way Traktor has been heading and will continue to do so. It will make sense for Traktor to retain good DVS support for its existing user base but I think it's fairly obvious by now that Traktor is heading towards being live production software instead of being pure DJ, especially given the recent updates and hardware releases.

This is also truth. My view: NI knew Rekordbox DJ, or something like it, was coming a while ago and have been nudging Traktor into a different area of live performance ever since, hence remix decks and stems. Up next is full integration of external hardware (NI's foremost, obviously).
So I agree, the big losers in all this could be Serato, whereas something like VDJ will continue by virtue of it working with *everything*.

 

im thinking from a longer term view, I just dont think stems or traktor remix decks are going any where. if the average punter does not know the dj is performing some kind of mind blowing stem remix on the fly what is the point?

yes other dj's watching youtube know what is happening and can take it on board, when the dj is hidden up behind the decks in a club whos going to know the skill that is taking place, due to the smoothness and 100% locked bpms it just comes out of the speakers as a perfect melody for want of a better word. as aposed too quick cross fades between tracks that are more blatant and which people can respond too for example.

I have yet to go to a rave were remix decks were being used never mind stems, or may be they where but i coudnt tell, it all leads me to believe it will all be over and done with very soon. That is my gut feeling, and the other question is, Do original tracks sound better when dj's are messing about with them in a live set? Not to me they dont, maybe in a techno set but really who cares.

dont get me wrong i was traktors biggest fan up until recently, but with the s8 and s5 just looking physically dated from day one i am worried. Add to that the competition:

put the ddj-sz next to an s8 and tell me its not killer in terms of looks and performance/desiability, put the s5 next to the xdj-r1...............

put 100 dj's in a room with there rekord box memory stick, one after the other can just walk up to the industry standard cdj2000 nexus system and play with no gaps in the music, no setting up and no worries what so ever.

but now pioneer they have made a ddj-rz its the same as a serato based ddj-sz released last year but locked to rekordbox, if that doesnt tell you they are moving away from serato i dont no what will, probably the other rekord box only controller but the name escapes me its all getting a bit confusing. + rekord boxes own DVS coming soon.......... going forward whats the point of serato when pioneer is already the industry standard up until now only missing a software platform.

so if that only leaves traktor and pioneer and traktor wont certify any more pio gear beyond the current crop and pioneer dont care because they have there own "traktor" i guess theres only one winner.

i feel its going back to the original way of doing things, two seperate platter devices and a mixer in the middle guess the brand.......

does the crowd want to watch dj EZ on the decks or Hawtin on an s8.............

with all that said my thoughts wont come into play over night but i am telling you it is going to go down like this.

 

Good point, but surely that's exactly the same as the average punter not knowing what Deadmau5 is actually up to on stage either.

Another good point, and I agree that spontaneity is sadly lacking in a lot of DJ sets that I've heard.

Sometimes yes, a lot of times a very emphatic NO. Using FX and stuff is a doddle, using them correctly seems to escape a lot of people though.

I wouldn't buy either if I'm honest.

I won't comment on what is industry standard, but CDJs are not the be all and end all of DJing and quite literally most DJs do not use them. The last time I encountered them I moved them out of the way to set my own kit up. As mentioned previously, Traktor will most likely become a full on live production software with full integration of Maschine which will set it apart from software like Rekordbox DJ and Serato.
It will still be DJ software for those who use it that way, but there will be more going on under the hood.

In my view it will be a case of Pioneer having a closed eco system where Rekorbox DJ will only work with their hardware. Guys like me who never use Pioneer gear will stick with what already works for us. NI may well follow this route since they make hardware as well as software, and if they go live production this will appeal to a different type of performer from a regular DJ. Serato on the other hand will probably have to follow VDJ's example and make their software work with everything that has a USB socket in order to survive.

I think NI might want to certify new gear but you are right about whether Pioneer will entertain them now that they have their own DJ software. I've known it be the other way around where hardware brands wanted Traktor certification but NI wouldn't give it.

I feel it's the opposite, CDJs are on the way out. I personally use separates but then I'm doing 5-6 hour sets and I want options in case something explodes mid set.

Or Craze on some 1200's? It will depend on what music they're into rather than the kit the DJ uses (that's what you said above), although watching Craze is something else again to be fair.

I think you make some very good points, however all Pioneer *seem* to have done is make a bit of DJ software that does everything other DJ software already does (except video afaik). The kicker is what Pioneer then choose to do with regard to existing, and future, support for other software and I think we are both in agreement in saying that Pioneer will only make controllers from now on for its own software.
But as far as Traktor is concerned I honestly think NI have been shoving it down an alternate route to the one currently occupied by every other DJ software currently around. That route won't be for me in the long term, but as long as Traktor works with my kit I see no reason to change anything and I certainly won't be buying anything by Pioneer for the sake of software compatibility and also because I find that other brands make better kit for less.
I happily stand to be corrected on any of the above, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this.

 

What I'm not understanding is this... if you think that Pio is wanting to lock other software companies out, then why did they add Traktor HID support to the CDJ 900NXS a few months ago? They already had Rekordbox DJ in the works when they did it. Don't get me started on Pioneer bringing a 32 bit application to a market that has been evolving toward a 64 bit standard over the past couple years. For windows users it'll cause the same latency and drop out issue that we saw with Traktor 32 and Serato because of access to system resources.

Honestly, I was of the mind that Pioneer and Rekordbox strength was the fact that you could ditch the laptop at home, this just puts a new industry untested software back on your laptop and it in the booth. I can already do that with Traktor, USB my CDJS to my laptop and advanced audio route the channel to the cdj itself. No extra soundcard required, just like Rekordbox Dj, using Pioneer hardware.

Other than that, not everyone is the same or has evolved the same way. After 10 years of vinyl, I migrated away from it and got in to Live from 4 thru 8. Traktor was the prefect blend of the 1s and 2s and gave me access to the preformance features that I loved about ableton. It is the fact that everyone is unique in their experiences and this translates to the way they play... the one thing Traktor is good at and that's being flexible enough to adapt to the way you want to play.

 

Pioneer will do the basics well. Something NI seem to have forgotten after the release of 2.0. I'd take Pioneer's approach over NI's any day of the week.

As for CD's on the way out? Maybe 5 years ago but Pioneer reacted to the popularity of DVS with the addition of USB input and the 2000 series is ubiquitous in every major club in the world. It's industry standard in the same way Technics 1200/1210 was. Most touring house and techno DJ's use them. Why bother with the hassle and reliability of a laptop and reconfiguring cables when you can just show up with a USB stick?

With the XDJ-1000 and other units they now have entry level systems and an upcoming DVS means NI seriously need to wake up.

 

As for the Pioneer DVS, it'll need an audio interface for it to be successful. Either Pioneer will need to release one, which given they seem to be intent on covering all bases for DJ hardware wouldn't surprise me, or they'll need to open up to 3rd party with a licence premium.

 

you mean like the audio interface found in the djm t1 djm850k djm900 nxs djm2000nxs and all there controllers???

 

No I mean like an audio interface that's portable and can operate on any mixer and CDJ/turntable setup. No use having DVS for a mixer unless you plan on taking it everywhere with you, in which case I'd prefer to stick with Traktor. Also a bit pointless on a controller that doesn't have inputs for DVS or a CDJ2000. Why bother with DVS when a USB stick is far more convenient and reliable? If they are serious about taking market share, they have to give existing Traktor/Serato DVS users a real reason to invest in Pioneer.

 

as i said all the mixers above have the soundcard inside, you will find these mixers at the clube, you can run timecode on a usb stick inside the 2000nxs etc or use HID, alot of the current pioneer controllers have phono inputs which is were pioneer's dvs will run from i would guess

 

Pioneer mixers with audio interfaces aren't standard install. A & H and Rane are still found in a lot of places, as are older Pioneer mixers such as the 800. Pioneer DVS won't be much use in these situations. Plus it's no use unless you have one at home = massive investment just to use Pioneer DVS. Nobody is likely to switch from Traktor or Serato for this reason.

CDJ-2000? I wouldn't waste my time with HID if I had these at home and in every club or bar. DVS is largely redundant whether it's Pioneer, Serato or Traktor, at least for the latter two it allows for easier integration than a standard audio interface.

Why would I bother paying for DVS for a controller? Just use the controller.

 

I'm currently using Serato but with the introduction of Stems I must admit that I'm very tempted to dable with Traktor, however I would agree that the hardware does seem a little 'Micky Mouse'. That's not to say it's no good, but it doesn't seem as robust/roadworthy as Pio's gear. Maybe I just prefer Pio. On the note about software and potential losers in that race...I agree that Serato is bound to suffer in some way to Pio's new DJ software, I can definitely say that I will be having a look at it, I have a DDJ SX so integration should be seamless. But after say all of that, any new software will have to be offering me something incredible for me to switch completely from Serato as it is rock solid and I'm just used to it now. I really like the idea of Stems but is that alone enough to make me spend £700 on a controller I don't really like? Probably not. Is pioneers promise of mega low latency and club familiar layout enough to tingle my 'spidey' senses? Definitely yes.
We will see

 

for sure pioneer will beat n.i. at this point .

 

well, it depends whether you're after robustness or innovation. NI's gear is quite good, and durable if you take care of it.

 

Exactly. Maschine Studio since 2013, komplete audio 6 since 2009/10 for me. How does the audio komplete 6 work on windows 10 for me with it being usb 2.0/usb 3 ports, but then the presonus 1818 vsl and software and drivers don't work/Steinberg Ur 44.

 

if you don't want innovation and you want plenty of bugs , then traktor is the best .