Is pionneer about to beat traktor and serato into submission?

My view:

Traktor is being pushed into live production/DJ software. Maschine will be integrated at some point in the near future although we may not see it until NI release Traktor v3. All the extra gubbins that NI have added since 2.5 lends itself more to live production than traditional DJ'ing however the extra functionality Traktor has been given can be used easily enough in a "traditional" DJ setup. But the path NI are treading is very much live production focused now, in my opinion.

As for Shiftee and Craze, they are on board as long as 2 criteria are met: 1) they get paid, and 2) the software does what they need it to do ;-)

 

Great questions. Here is my answer:

Like you i am stuck using 2.6.8 anything after 2.6.8 including the 2.10 has major issue that have been reported by many here.

With Serato you can use their latest version and benefit from their latest features and bug fixes.

With Traktor we are stuck using old software because new releases have major issues. What is worse the new releases do not add much in terms of bug fixes or new features anyway. Serato has added a ton of features some looks like it came straight from the NI feature request section.

Rekord box is a bit new but it does look like they are fast at taking action on reported bugs this is not the case with NI.

To me both RB & Serato also do a far better job in communicating & Supporting their customer base than Traktor.

 

I agree that it does look like that although I'm not sold that it's all NI.

But what is it that's wrong with the "old software"? I mean, if we're honest none of the DJ software offerings really do anything that is particularly different from what they did before, or from each other. Traktor 2 is basically the same as Traktor 1, Serato DJ is the same as SSL (lots of people are still using SSL for preference incidentally). They all do pretty much the same thing.
With that in mind, what exactly are we asking for here? I ask because it seems to me that we look upon something like Serato, who will roll out a new version which adds a little bit here, and fixes a bug there, without asking ourselves if it actually changes anything. In other words, does the fact that the latest version of Serato works ok automatically make it superior to the latest version of Traktor even though 90% of us will not notice, or indeed use, the differences?
Is that how we measure how good a DJ software is? Because the latest version works even though nothing has really changed since the last version that also worked?

Again, what has changed about Serato that makes it superior to whatever version of Traktor you can get working? What are the ton of features? I'm not trying to be deliberately ignorant here, I genuinely want to know why "latest version" is immediately equivilent to "better than". My view is that the software developers are in a situation where they have to be seen to be pumping out new features (for free I might add) to keep people interested, when the fact is that most of these features are superfluous.

I can agree with this, communication does seem better with both Pioneer and Serato, whereas with NI the feeling is very much that you're talking at them rather than to them. A few words about what is going on is always appreciated by the user base.

 

well, take a look to the feature request and technical issues sub forums and you'll quickly see some stuff that's missing in traktor, even though the request or issue may be old. the lack of implementation of this "new" (¿?) stuff and lack of resolution in some long standing issues, are the things that make the "old" traktor be "bad".

it's not just that it works, which it mostly does. it's about improvement over that, improvement in the sense of:
- solving issues instead of ignoring them (for me, the most important, data consistency)
- implementing tools and features that either make our backoffice life easier (browser improvements, usability, UI flexibility, the list can be long) or make us enjoy much more the use of traktor.

of course, every program covers the basics. some of them can be proud of being able to perform almost rock solid.

having that, what else may we need? well that's what i think is the point of all this discussion: some need the software to overcome problems, even if they are localised in a few users, these are issues and should be investigated. some need other features than the ones NI has been pushing the last years and expect somehow to see them anytime.

 

Thanks for jumping in Nreek. i agree with the below which is very well worded. and also like to point out 2.6.8 does not support many new controllers and NI Future of DJing hardware that have recently releases and will like not support other new hardware options that may come out in the near future.

There is nothing wrong with using old software.. but personally i do like to have a bit more options and improvements that what 2.6.8 has to offer.

 

I answered pretty much all of your questions in the post you've actually quoted. I'm not sure why you'd choose to ignore the answers, but to sum up Traktor has long since been a hardware driven platform and for traditional DJ's like myself it hasn't progressed really at all since version 1. I don't see that changing any time soon. Serato on the other hand doesn't have any ties to hardware and the changes in the software are for the good of the software, not shifting the next revision of hardware that NI throws out. There is now nothing in Traktor I need or use that I can't have in Serato, the converse is not true.

Rekordbox has the unique selling point of being tied to the industry leader in DJ booth equipment. This is massive from my perspective. I don't need to rely on the software, a laptop and the myriad of software updates both at OS, DVS and other applications that could send it all tits up at any minute, and besides setting up a DVS is a pain in the ******* arse that I'd rather do without. Pioneer dropped the ball for a long time and it took for them to introduce the 2000 series to get back in the game but even then it was out of reach for your average DJ. That is lo longer the case as they have a far broader range of hardware solutions and now have a DVS to compliment them.

Other platforms I wouldn't even bother with. I had so much trouble with Torq that I won't opt for a budget friendly solution again.

 

If we don't need new features or improvements to old ones then why would any company bother to invest in the product? Why not sit back and watch the cash roll in?

 

Ain´t it already a psychotic situation that a company provides a platform where users may help other users without regarding their common problems? Isn´t it disappointing to see all feature requests ignored for years? Ain´t it a proof of inability if service recommends not to update/rely on older version?
Isn´t it a huge proof of trust if users still hang on and didn´t loose interest - though complaining? And is this trust still recognized?

Any snooty company that doesn´t listen to costumers complaints is condemned to fail - sooner or later.....
Problems may/will happen on any occasion - everywhere. Meanwhile I judge companies not just by their product quality but even more on their reaction when something goes wrong.

 

probably one of the better worded post here. Thank you for this. I totally agree. well said.

 

Well; ppl have a right to be pissed off after the direction NI has chosen with traktor. It's a total reversal from the way serato used to work and the way ni works now. Seems like tons of great products out for serato from numerous manufacturers and for traktor everyone has been locked out and all we see are two new controllers that aren't for (the real dj). The both would be excellent and considered more if they had the jog wheels on them, but who can scratch with that strip and for those that do why would they even want to try.

For me if supm doesn't come out in the next little while i may really consider supm else for my controller needs. For my 1200's I'll stick with my denon 1700 and 2.68. I went to 2.71 and it was so bad I went back to 2.68 and now fear upgrading to anything at this time. I use a controller for the smaller gigs and break out the 12's for the bigger ones so it's time NI stop joking around and get back to making things that dj's who dj and not sit there waving their hands in the air all night want.

my 3cents

 

You didn't. My question was: what is Serato doing that Traktor isnt? Your reply noted Serato playing catch up to Traktor with regard to having 4 decks and you also listed some features which suit you but are not massively different, and one at least is purely cosmetic. The latest version of Serato does pretty much what Traktor 2.6 does, and both of them do what Traktor v1 and SSL did anyway.

My point is that none of them have, they all do the same thing is only slightly different ways. That isn't a criticism of the software or the developers because reinventing the wheel is a waste of time when what you have already works perfectly well.

I also have issues with developers orphaning hardware, but as far as I am aware NI's incompatibility issue was an accident and they've actually reinstated it with the latest version. Or you could run an earlier version which doesn't have those issues.

And Serato orphaned the SL1, so they do it too.

That's an entirely subjective opinion and you're not wrong for saying it. There's nothing in Serato that I don't already have, or don't need anyway, in Traktor.

Yup, tied to, unmappable and overpriced (the gear, not the software). But that's just my opinion, I don't use Pio gear and never will unless somebody else is paying for it. But Rekordbox is far too limiting for me anyway, it's fine if I'm doing an hours set somewhere and my choice of music is limited but beyond that give me the laptop and screen space thank you very much.

Same here, laptops are the best and worst thing that happened to DJing, at the same time. That's why I upgraded my kit so that my laptop plugs directly into the mixer, save cables, messing about and time.

Not yet they don't. They will, of course, but not yet.

My potential replacement list, should I ever need it, includes Serato, VDJ and Cross.

 

Of course I posted features that suit me, what else would I care about? As for the cosmetic feature I assume you mean in line waveforms. They aren't purely cosmetic because they are functional in the same way Traktor's phase meters are functional. Serato's implementation is significantly more intuitive though and there are many Traktor users who want in-line waveforms, I doubt there are many Serato users asking for phase meters.

 

Pioneer's gear has been overpriced, most of it still is, but the XDJ series look like excellent value for money to me. The gear isn't designed to be mappable, why would you pay the premium for it and then use it to control software? And that applies to Serato, Traktor and even Rekordbox. I've never understood folk who pay a massive amount of cash for CDJ-2000's and then use it to control a 3rd part DVS.

 

what exactly is it that you want that 2.6.8 doesnt do? it works with my f1 remix decks, x1 controller, dvs/plx1000, and my djmt1 and my s4! theres nothing that doesnt work, i never got as far as stems as the direction NI are going has turned me away for many reasons.

but as for traktor, it works and i cant think of anything that it doesnt do and no errors to speak of???

im using win 8.1 - dell xps12 (dell vostro before that) laptop - traktor 2.6.8

and i would guess that if i where to buy an s8 or s5 or d2 and upgrade to the latest version that would work to.

the issues you 3 are having is with your laptop and your lack of knoledge to get the two working together.

i have moved to the xdj1000 for my house music events because they are whats needed and what most folk can use, but if i where to go back mobile djing or residency work trust me i would be taking traktor and a controller for obvious reasons ie beer spillage, laptop screen.............

 

What issues would they be then?

 

Right, so your opinion is precisely that; your opinion. The issues with Traktor are entirely subjective.

DJ's should trust their ears, not a screen. Given all the other on screen data, in line waveforms are mainly cosmetic. That's my opinion and is, of course, entirely subjective.

 

Yes my opinion is my opinion, but you did ask for my opinion, so you got my opinion, and since it is me who has to use the software it's only my opinion that matters to me.

You don't like in-line waveforms, don't use them. It still doesn't mean they're not significantly better at their purpose than phase meters, and they're still functional even if you choose not to use them. I'd rather trust all of the information I have at hand, particularly in environments that have shitty monitors and/or a lot of background noise.

 

Right, but my contention is that your opinion on what is wrong as far as you care is not really an accurate reflection on the state of Traktor as a piece of DJ'ing software overall.

You do, so use Serato.

Maybe they are, maybe they're not. It's another subjective opinion based on personal preference and nothing more. Either way it's a minor point, Traktor works perfectly well without them.

 

I never claimed it was.

Really? I wasn't expecting that valuable advice. Thanks.

In your subjective opinion, obviously.

 

thank **** i found this thread, i have just reinstalled trakor, over a few days of trial and error due to fitting a larger ssd.

to cut a very long story short and i do mean long............ i found this out:

dont use windows 10 yet, do use windows 7 or 8

dont use the latest versions of traktor and stick to 2.6.8 - the latest version of traktor i could not import my collectin from 2.6.8 and the scaling in 1080p on my laptop was unreadable, very tiny lettering amongst a whole load of other endless ****

i went back to 2.6.8 - windows 8.1 - i fixed the drag and drop issue as geforce said as i had set it to administrator at some point, i would have found eventually but would of taken a mind boggling amount of time. as the problem of not being able to drag and drop because a short cut is set to run as adminastrator just doent compute in a logical mind.

the last few days have put the second to last final nail in the coffin for traktor for me personally, one more **** up and im strictly rekord box.

lifes to short for this ****...................

ps i had to throw out all the officail restore mumbo jumbo and use a copy and paste of my ni documents folder straight over the new installation ni documents folder, this is the only way i could restore.