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Is this the new Ableton Live Push 2 Controller?????

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Hit-Man, Oct 31, 2015.

  1. Spazoo

    Spazoo NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,732
    i use serato but i've not tried to use it with maschine. i'll give it a try this week and let you know how well it works.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
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  2. skinswashdc

    skinswashdc Well-Known Member

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    2,345
    I think the push 2 with ableton set-up is good if your trying to do your live sets if anyone is looking at a traktor controller.Push 2 is built very well. As far as the synch issue, it does take some steps but it works. A tutorial from dub spot helped. Hopefully they make the integration better in the future. Could see a maschine dech! If you are trying to DJ DJ (top 40, soca, dance etc) I would recommend getting your mixing down with the traktor controller and worrying about the maschine integration later. I personally just have traktor open with maschine. I then drag maschine's bounced file in traktor's remix dech. Then have that playing in dech a or b and just mess with it on either the D2 or my turntables over a random accapella. Just started working like that.
     
  3. skinswashdc

    skinswashdc Well-Known Member

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    2,345
    Can't believe InMusic bought rane. I think serato is next for them. Who knows they might buy ableton (being sarcastic).
     
  4. skinswashdc

    skinswashdc Well-Known Member

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    2,345
  5. AntonA1

    AntonA1 NI Product Owner

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    1,722
    These are the million dollar questions...those who know won't say, so we're left guessing?
    I went from dat tapes to vinyl to cdj's to Traktor (in that order), and am heading back to cdj's standalone and all in one controller's via rekordbox (with Rekord Buddy for importing cue points etc.). I've never used Serato. And yes to what Spazoo said regarding the drift...hadn't used it in a while; I remembered there being a definite problem keeping stuff in sync.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
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  6. District Onagi

    District Onagi NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    881
    I was hesitant, as it loses functionality because you have to put it into midi mode I believe... and if that's the case, then you lose the use of macros knobs, note repeat, max velocity, keyboard mode, etc. pretty much all of the features that we love to use. Why the two products aren't tightly integrated to be used together is something I don't get. I just kindof assumed that it already was so.

    In any event, I'd definitely be curious to see what your opinion of how well they work together are. Cheers :)
     
  7. Jiloo

    Jiloo NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,272
    There is a Playtime plugin for Reaper with scenes.
    https://www.helgoboss.org/projects/playtime/
    But I have never used it so I don't have any opinion.
     
  8. D-J-K

    D-J-K NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,294
    This is very true, unfortunately. I've struggled for years now to find a way to integrate Traktor & Maschine together to achieve a stable tight sync across multiple length bar patterns, but it really does not exist. In my current setup I run Maschine standalone slaved to Traktor's clock, and route into a live deck in Traktor. I have beatsync activated and use Loopbe (same as Virtual Output in Mac) to send midi clock signals to sync with Maschine clock.

    Everything works pretty good and sounds great running through Traktor's mixer, but as Anton mentioned, the biggest (and unfortunate) downfall is that it will not sync to a specific beat per measure, but just the whole measure. When I hit sync, Maschine just locks on to the next beat in the current measure based on the signal it receives from Traktor. So if I hit sync while Traktor is on at beat 1.2, Maschine will sync at 1.1 -- thus off creating phrase issues. This issue gets compounded once you start creating longer patterns in Maschine. It amazes me that NI has not done something with this.

    There are other solutions to this such as dragging your samples from Maschine into a Remix deck. But for me that kills a lot of the dynamic power of maschine in being able to run samplers such as Polyplex and Battery directly with Traktor.

    Sorry to continue off topic, but this was an interesting side discussion here that I couldn't resist :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
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  9. Mystic38

    Mystic38 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,294
    imo, going from Push 1 to Push 2 took Live from being complementary to Maschine to being a serious alternative to it... and I agree with you, session view is what Ableton Live is all about, and Push 2 is strongly geared towards that..(and it make sense really too)

    So, if you are thinking about using primarily arrangement view, then if you already have Ableton then cool, but if not there are better DAW out there for that style of work..
    So, if you do not have Live already, know that it is seriously overpriced. So checkout Sonar, Studio One-3, Cubase, Logic Pro... and, in particular,

    1.check out what VST and tools are bundled with each DAW.. sometimes the pricier bundle, or a different choice is a solid deal,
    2. check out extra facilities eg..Sonar has had a "session view" since 2009 called Matrix View and S1-3 has recently added sketchpad area and arranger view.. both useful for knocking stuff out.
    3. Check out things that directly relate to your workflow or wishes, and not what other people say you should buy.
    4. tbh, there are things in each DAW that make it great and seriously better than the others, and also things that each DAW lacks...so check out #3 with regards to #4 and do NOT make assumptions about DAWs..

     
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  10. dj_67

    dj_67 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    144
    When i’m using Maschine and Traktor together - i sync them in the exact opposite way.

    Maschine is Midiclock master and therefore Traktor is Midislave.
    Maschine’s clock is mostly needed to sync Traktor’s effects to the master tempo - so a little drift here and there doesn’t really matter.

    I use the „sync button“ (in Traktor) only to quickly match the the track tempo to Maschine’s clock, and after that i beatmatch by ear - the oldscool way - by nudging jogwheels or timecode vinyl and using the pitchfader.
    Instead of using the default behavior, i remapped my sync buttons to „Deck Common/Temposync“ - in this way the pitchfader of this particular deck is still usable and not locked by the sync button.
    Traktor's sync behavior - external sync or auto mode - is mapped to a button of my controllers.

    Most of the time i’m using a Maschine MK2 and my old Traktor S4 MK1 plus two F1 and two X1 MK2.
    I’m routing Maschine’s audio via Jack through Traktor’s mixer (Decks C&D) and an additional cue bus directly to monitor out of the S4 audio interface.
    This gives me the option to have Maschine’s main output on Deck D while using Deck C as send channel for Maschine (with Traktors effects inserted in Deck C). Additionally i’m able to cue single Maschine sounds or groups directly without sending them through Traktor’s mixer.
    Midi sync is done via a cable between the Maschine controller and the S4.

    This is a very usable set up - you only have two hands and one brain ;) - and it runs pretty well on a 2011 macbook pro i7 2,4.
    Of course Diva in divine mode is not recommended for this live setup, but as long as your are careful and reasonable with your plugin selection it just works.
    My OT 2cents.:)
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
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  11. skinswashdc

    skinswashdc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,345
    I like the way you have it set-up.
     
  12. Spazoo

    Spazoo NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,732
    beatmatching by ear works when sync is not required, such as getting tempo close enough for delay fx. but if you try to play a machine loop in sync with a traktor deck the drifting is so bad the beats sounds like horses racing at the kentucky derby.

    and if you're using an S8 controller then remapping the controls is not an option. NI removed control remapping on the S8. it's ridic that i can do so many things with my S2 controller that my S8 controller cannot do even though the S8 cost me 3 times the price.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
  13. D-J-K

    D-J-K NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,294
    But are you sending sending a midi clock to/from Maschine/Traktor ? I find maschine to be great at latching on to a midi clock, but only by whole measure. Where it lacks is the fact that there is no midi communication between Traktor or Maschine about the beat phase. Sort of kills the whole beat/cue jumping and staying in phase sync with Maschine. Is not possible in the midi world ?

    Yeah, you have nice setup dj_67. You get the advantages of maschine but with little bit of old fashion DJ know-how.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
  14. Spazoo

    Spazoo NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,732

    ok well i just now downloaded and installed the latest version of traktor and i have to say that the

    midi sync is actually working pretty good!


    i tested the sync with maschine and also ableton live and both of them stayed in synce for the duration... about 15 minutes. even when i changed the tempo in traktor. maybe it is finally fixed? if so, this is a major improvement to my world!!!! :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
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  15. AntonA1

    AntonA1 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,722
    Well what do you know? This was broken for this longest time. Progress! :)

    p.s. D-J-K: it seems everything is syncing up nicely, as long as you get your beat offset lined up, mute your Maschine group (in a live situation, or have it sent initially to your cue, to ensure it's lining up), then hit Play (not Sync). After that I could load songs in Traktor one after the other and same for kits in Maschine and everything kept in sync.

    Will test again from scratch to make sure...

    Edit: Well, that was the most fun, creative DJ session I've had in a long time. Sometimes a song or beat wouldn't start on the '1'. I would either Mute, hit Cue, or lower the volume on Maschine and hit the Sync button on Traktor until the songs were hitting the '1' again. I was playing around with about 105 bpm, old skool meets new skool. Having the beats from Maschine opened up creative possibilities and provided a bit of breathing room for choosing the next track. Melodic stuff was a bit trickier; I'd have to line up the key and scale mode by ear and find a workable sound, and also watch out for chord changes, but very doable. Looking forward to incorporating this into a live set soon.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
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  16. theinvis

    theinvis NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,069
  17. jiggle

    jiggle Forum Member

    Messages:
    822
    I am loving the frequent updates adding features to the push 2. I have to admit my maschines gotten dusty since I got it.
     
  18. alexbuga

    alexbuga NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    845
    Yeah, and the screens update faster between modes now. Or is it just me?
     
  19. jiggle

    jiggle Forum Member

    Messages:
    822
    Ive not noticed that, but I haven't noticed any lag at all so you could well be right. I'm impressed with the amount added already, I've had it a few months and it's getting better all the time
     
  20. District Onagi

    District Onagi NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    881
    Is the lag between the screen switching between wav forms on the hardware still there/has it reduced/ is it gone?