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iTunes node sort

Discussion in 'Bug Reports' started by kokernutz, Sep 27, 2019.

  1. kokernutz

    kokernutz NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    208
    The sorting of the playlist elements in the iTunes node in Traktor does not match iTunes. If the sort can't be identical, can it least be alphabetical?

    Traktor.png iTunes.png
     
  2. Sander @ NI

    Sander @ NI NI Team Staff Member NI Team

    Messages:
    606
    Hi, thank you for your report. We were already aware of the problem and we are working on a fix for the next beta.

    Best
    Sander
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. kokernutz

    kokernutz NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    208
    This is almost fixed... it sorts the regular playlists in with the smart playlists. In iTunes, the non-smart playlists come second in the list...

    If this is the best you can do then I'm satisfied.

    upload_2019-10-10_18-49-47.png upload_2019-10-10_18-50-4.png
     
  4. alec.tron

    alec.tron NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    532
    I still see sorting issues in the latest 3.3.0.45.
    Edge cases, but still - i.e. playlists with a single entry, seem to now appear first despite having a higher Playlist ID as well as a later/higher starting letter.

    Sander @ NI - tech question - can you please confirm that Traktor 3.3.+ should sort itunes folders & playlists by the xml's "Playlist ID" value of each... ?
    And if not, what else...?

    As for kokernutz - Smart Playlists in iTunes are a different type... in the exported xml, they become static, so NI would have no means of sorting these differently, based on it being smart/static ones in iTunes... but, depending on what apple is doing - the Playlist ID value in the xml might give you a clue here as well.

    Churs.
    c.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019 at 6:24 PM
  5. ErikMinekus

    ErikMinekus NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    614
    Traktor 3.3 uses the iTunesLibrary API, which does tell you if it's a regular or smart playlist.
     
  6. alec.tron

    alec.tron NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    532
    Since I do not use native iTunes xmls but a MusciBee one, which writes the olden xmls still, and which works perfect in Serato/Rekordbox & mostly Traktor...
    So you're saying/implying that Traktor 3.3., by using the api (and not the xml...?), would also keep the iTunes smart playlist rules alive/dynamic insided of Traktor's iTunes node...?
    Did you see any kind of documentation from NI's side on this ?

    From what I see they're still using the olden xml parser of theirs/NIs (including the old issues with unicode/diacritics/etc to seem to come back regularly still...).
    c.
     
  7. ErikMinekus

    ErikMinekus NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    614
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019 at 7:02 PM
  8. alec.tron

    alec.tron NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    532
    Well, the Music App is a new program introduced by Apple.
    The iTunes legacy & the xml as an exchange format still stands, and the addition of a new program should not make the xml way we have used & relied on for 10+ years obsolete all of a sudden.
    Not for PC and neither for Mac.
    The iTunesLibrary Api & new Music App is exactly just that, another/new way to access Music Library information from users (on Macs, who have switched to Catalina already...).
    c.
     
  9. Enzo @ NI

    Enzo @ NI NI Team NI Team

    Messages:
    10
    Hi kokernutz alec.tron,
    iTunes sorts playlists, smart playlists and folders of playlists in its own way (which changed slightly over the different versions of iTunes) which is not accessible both from the XML or the iTunesLibrary API. In addition to that we anyways don't display each one of the iTunes playlists as some are not relevant for Traktor Pro (e.g. "Movies").

    Because of these reasons we implemented the sorting of playlists, smart playlists and folders coming from iTunes/Music app (independently if they were imported by XML or API) in a way which is a middle-ground between what happens in iTunes/Music and what happens in the rest of the Traktor Pro browser tree (e.g. when navigating the Explorer node). That is:

    - iTunes/Music "Library" playlist goes first
    - then folders in alphabetical order
    - playlists and smart playlists in alphabetical order

    Yes, smart playlists are grouped and sorted together with normal playlists because, as alec.tron explained above, they become a little less "smart" when imported (again, it doesn't matter if via XML or API).

    Hope this brings a little more clarity :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Enzo @ NI

    Enzo @ NI NI Team NI Team

    Messages:
    10
    Hey alec.tron,
    the "Playlist ID" field is not used for sorting. Nevertheless if you see edge cases not sorted correctly by our latest beta (3.3.0.45 at the time of writing this message) please report them in this forum and we will be happy to have a closer look!

    About the XML format, the new API and Music app:
    Apple never intended the iTunes XML format to be used by third parties and, because of that, never documented it officially nor announced breaking changes upfront to developers. Nevertheless all DJ softwares, music management utilities and few other music apps took advanced of it in order to interface/integrate with iTunes.
    This is the reason why Apple HAD to keep the XML export feature in iTunes for so long, until macOS 10.13 and iTunes 12... where they introduced a dedicated API to let developers do what they always did by messing with the iTunes XML file: read (yes, the API is read-only) the content of the iTunes music library in order to discover and eventually playback its content.
    Since then, the deprecation of the XML-based solution got faster: first iTunes 12 started exporting the XML only on quit, now Music app requires a manual export to be performed. It's not hard to foresee a future version of the new Music app where XML export is completely gone (again, I think they are unwillingly keeping this feature in just not to annoy a big group of users).

    So, long story short: Traktor Pro 3.3.0 currently uses the API on macOS 10.13 and later to integrate with iTunes/Music. Because of the different other apps (MusicBee, Beatport Pro, etc) relying on the XML format to interface with DJ softwares we are evaluating re-introducing the option to use XML import in Traktor Pro in a later beta.

    Best,
    Enzo
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. alec.tron

    alec.tron NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    532
    Thanks for engaging & the detailed explanation - it is much appreciated Enzo @ NI & exactly what NI & this community needs more of!
    And thanks even moreso for taking the time to post this past the normal working hours (assuming you're in Berlin... )...!

    As for edge cases:
    No biggie though... as it would be a fair question why on earth one would even need a playlist with a single entry... :D

    All the bestest!