Jonathan Style is now at...

Hi everyone

I am currently updating my Web-page everything will be there that I still have from my computer crash. I have start but it is taking awhile to track things down and sort them into a format that I am able to upload, there is stuff there now, if you are a faithful UL person that most of this is stuff you have seen in the past, some in the next week or two will not be.

http://base-designs.com/home

 

can't wait

Keep me updated, john.

Cheers,
Luca

 

Small update will some more knobman files see VST graphics area. There should be some more this evening.

 

J.- You're site is really looking great. There's a lot of work there and I hope people appreciate what you are giving away. Thanks for your contribution to the Reaktor Community.

 

I don't know the verdict on that yet beyond this community Don. It might have been a bad idea to bring it all so public as I have the bad feeling it is going to be abused outside the community. But I am one to jump to conclusions so I will have to wait and see. I don't see the reaktor stuff going that way. There is actually very little interest in the Reaktor stuff in comparison to the other areas mainly SM and VST graphics. I guess that means the thieves haven't caught on yet or Reaktor really is that obsolete outside the community here...or no one wants what I got That is for those who have not been a part of the UL for the last two years as most of what I have been able to put up thus far is just that, so regulars to the UL wouldn't need fuss much with that. but on a side I believe that many people don't actually use the UL. I have met many people that don't even know about it....Reaktor is just something they got with Komplete, sort of like a freebie that came with the package but no one really cared about it was the other programs that are the value products, sort of getting a a free nail clipper because you purchased a new car. Yes, I am still on that rant only because this is true of how people are thinking in terms of what NI offers.

But beyond that only one site appears to be acting badly and they are not allowing me anyway to contact them...what a surprise. Although it doesn't concern the Reaktor stuff.

 

http://www.plugindex.de/

I had a problem with the above site and they have fixed this problem right away. I am happy that there are still people that have a heart.

 

I think that the UL is the place and not many have private web sites with ensembles anymore. I think there were a handful a few years ago but I havn't found much new stuff recently....

 

i agree, at least with the UL only registered owners of Reaktor can download your stuff. with personal sites, anyone can download.

sowari

 

That's how I reasoned when I only put text and images on my (now defunct) site but only a link to the UL for download.

 

These people have fixed the post on their site and have respected my request. I am very happy about this. +1


Like I said above there is very little interest shown for the reaktor stuff sorry thats the truth, so little interest I have even considered removing it and just using those ensemble for the pictures to decorate the site. If I find that these are being misused I may take ZooTooks idea on this, but for now I am hardly worried no one gives a damn about them ie out of 4000+ hits there are only a few hundred to the Reaktor page 96% of the traffic to the reaktor page is from here anyway, unlike the rest of the site. Like I said, I aint worried about the reaktor stuff as lack of interest reveals several things.

 

I hesitate to respond because I know a floodgate will open, but I just don't think there is anything wrong with publishing your own ensembles. If someone downloads them for use on a bootleg version of Reaktor, that's out of the maker's control. It's not like NI-created ensembles are being posted. If I loan a friend a CD to listen to and he makes a copy, that's not on me. If I copy it and give it away, then that's a whole other thing.

Jonathan, I think you're stuff is way above the rest in terms of polish and you should consider a Paypal charge. That will at least honest up some of the users. And I know this has been debated ad infinitum on these forims, but when a developer get to this level, I have know problem with them charging after taking the initiative and spending the time to set up a web page and all.

 

I would agree with you in part, but I have hesitations about posting them the way that I have so this may change.

Let me be clear on a few things.
1. I don't have any intention of charging for for anything there I am novice at best.

2. What I would like is to be employed doing what I love to do, making graphics for VST’s but in a commercial format. Although I believe that I need more time to develop skill and perhaps it’s just a pipe idea in and of itself. There are many talented people out there as a search on KVR could demonstrate. So the pool is very big and I am a very tiny fish.

3. To be honest, I was really hoping that by having these instruments outside of the UL which is far too exclusive that it would actually generate some interest in a program that I am about 90% fan boy of.

4. The areas getting hits on my site opened my eyes to several things. My Synthmaker vst is getting almost all the traffic to my site, VST graphics is second. My music is third in that order and very last is Reaktor. So this has me thinking. What should be the future of Reaktor? Here’s what I think (and this is a change of opinion from what I have posted in other threads in the past).

5. Reaktor needs an export to VST and similar formats. However this should come with conditions. I have learned this by observing the SM forum.

Here is my idea for it.

1. Export to 'vst' and EXE that can be supported in VST, DXI, AU and RTAS. Basically it exports in a form that works in all the formats that Reaktor works in.

2. This export is closed to all non-official owners of Reaktor. Meaning that people who dL the exported format of this instrument/fx will not be able to modify it in anyway it would be closed just like any other VST, AU, DXI Rtas is.

3. Posts to the UL will allow you to share what you have done with the community so that all can benefit from what you have and modify it etc. This is a schematic of the instrument just as it is now not just an export, those that want to export an instrument will be required to do this without exception. This will be critical for the export of the instrument and one will not be able to export the instrument without having done this (see below for my reasoning on this). Yes I said it twice it that import a part of my thinking.

I think this should work for the most part. It preserves the open community that is so valuable but allows this community and its builder to get their work outside of Reaktor and generate interest in the program itself lest this becomes a dead-end product and it can no longer remain so exclusive as this is weakening the actual strength of it in comparison to what other program are allowing right now.

Ultimately the best part of Reaktor is being able to take 'parts from this and that' and quickly get what you need, in my scheme this is reserved for official owners of Reaktor as it is now, it remains an exclusive right for owners of Reaktor. I think that all of this should be tied to the service center. Before you can export the instrument you must download it to the UL and you will not be allowed to delete it, end of dicussion. This will be used for verification of the instrument so that it can be opened and modify by official owners of Reaktor who downloaded the exported version and deny those that are not...also making it difficult of thieves to take what you have. It will also serve and as evidence that you are the owner of that instrument and the date of its release. All exported instruments/fx dl from other sources then the UL must checked against the database in the UL via the service center verifing that you are a legitimate owner before you can open the instrument within Reaktor. If it can not be verified you will only be able to open the instrument in its exported format ie as plugin in a host DAW.

So in the end we will be able to generate the same interest in our creations as SM and others. Second, those people that download these instrument/fx’s will be limited to using it as any other plugin. The community remains open and nothing is locked for us, it is only locked for non-owners for Reaktor.

This will also prevent export instruments/fx as means for silly people to try and hide what they have from the community as I do not in anyway believe in that. So it must be tied the UL and service center if you want to export it.

The bottom line is that people are interested in the SM plug and not in the Reaktor instruments despite the great differance in quality. I am not putting SM down merely stating what has worked best for me and where I have the great degree of confediance. This fact that people are interested in VST format of my instrument maybe for several reasons, but it is still a fact for me that I am looking at right here on my screen. SM allows me and other people to do what Reaktor will not. That is what the people actually want, those same people have no intention of every buying reaktor and perhaps many of them own Komplete. For people like me that is actually what I need. Do the math yourself I already have my proof I need to make up my mind.

 

then I guess everyone else is happy in the current state, as is...hum.

Consider this. If I was able to export my instrument I would be able to take that instrument with me and not have to rely on the full program. As a single user that would be nice. I do get very annoyed having to always save files for the full program search libraries to find one instrument. There are many time I would just like to reach for one of my synths drop it and and keep working without all the fuss just like a normal plugin. All my presets are there and there is no searching I have a folder for just such things in live, but there would be no delay of having to save file and such, I don't do that with other plugin...why should I be forced to with reaktor, let me do this for my sense of sanity.

I know its the club exclusive thing that everyone really likes ...now I see.

Don't worry I don't see NI doing it. It might raise the expectations to high. I mean if people actually need it for more then proof of concept so they can develop it in another platform. Besides I might actually create some interest in Reaktor for NI that would be just horrible.

ps I am not having a big-head day, this isn't coming from ego speak. Just looking towards the future. What this product can actually offer me and the people that come to it in the future. This sort of platform is getting outdated now. There is a really emerging reality that is will become obsolete if they don't start rethinking it.

90% fanboy not 100% give me the other 10%.

 

i wouldn't quite say that.

for my purposes, vat export is not so important.

what would be good though is to able to load a number of standalone Reaktor Ensembles on different computers for a specific projects such a workshops, installations, collaborations, compositions etc, etc. in other words do something that might just be for a day, a weekend, a week or a couple of weeks.

sowari

 

For my own personal musical venture that sort of thing would be very interesting for me, but I see that making Reaktor even more obscure, exclusive, and non-interesting for the users out there. Why would I say this when I am one of the people that has converted from thinking plugin/host DAW to performance oriented environment in Reaktor stand alone for myself. I see what people are actually doing on my site. They want plugins for use in a host end of story. They are not going to be converted to this format that you and I are most interested in. I believe that is just the plain harsh reality of it.

Do I want to use Reaktor as a means to justify myself as a developer? No, I think that would be very silly. If I wanted to be viewed as a developer I would start to seriously learn C++ and hope to god that I get much smarter. I don’t really want to be seen as a developer but as someone that has cool & usefull instruments to share. But the fact still remains that Synthmaker has done successfully what NI is not allowing us, I believe that success is in part due to the export feature and they are getting attention because of it. The bottom line for me is that the best stuff that I have to offer, where I have invested most of the past few years of my life, is useless to people that have come the site as they have not gone to the Reaktor page at all and it is tagged clear as day, I can track where people are going what from what pages they come from, where those site are etc.

I forced myself last night to work with just plugins in Live and I have to say it was super easy and it took less time then working with Reaktor in its current form. If I could load my individual instruments made in Reaktor as a simple plugins I think it would prove to be a more effective way to work. Take Reaktor into a place the majority of people would adapt much faster then the current setup and create a bigger demand for it.

The problem is that I am looking at what at what other people are coming to the site for. It has forced me to rethink things or at least consider what people are actually interested in and using. This is the basis for my statements not really gear for how I want to make music, but the other side of it is that it has actual brought my sense of being stuck in the box frustrations to the fore front of my thinking. Perhaps that is due to the fact that I have been using Synthmaker since version 0.8. What I find most appealing about it is the export to vst. My main reason for not being more active in it is that I am terrible at coding and to produce anything that is really appealing requires that.

But with that said about my capabilities. Last nights little experiment in Live with just plugins I used my Synthmaker plugs along with korg’s M1 and Battery. And despite the fact that people tend to scoff at SM it really didn’t sound bad…actually my SM plugs sounded really convincing and I will be using them much more now and spending some time to really get them more developed, perhaps surpassing my favoritism toward Reaktor. I was very surprised to see that they actually offered much more then I have been doing with them because I tend to focus on Reaktor.

So there it is, all on the table. I am sure most people on this forum will be overlooking this so I don’t expect that much.

 

I'm thinking of Pluggo, which is a set of diverse and very cool plug-ins. Thet are all created with MAX. Is not MAX the primary competitor of Reaktor? It would seem to make sense - and good business to allow Reaktor to also export as a plug-in. Instead of Reaktor Lite, NI could sell sets of Reaktor-made plugins. So could third-party developers.

 

That is the point. Why is NI always holding out these last little bits of polish, is that part of the NI stratergy to always limit Reaktor so is just a little bit less then what is should be or would actually make it more effective. Certianly the sample managment for reaktor would suggest this.

My concern with such an issue is keep it open for the people that own Reaktor as to make modification for thier own needs. Allow one of Reaktors greatest strenght to remains constant and steady. I wouldn't want to allow people to keep the instruments closed for themselves as this would seriously hurt the community here I have not changed my mind on that issue. see thread for why I still insist on this:

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63784&highlight=locked+macros


The only problem with pluggo and the reason I have never persued it is that its MAC only.

But I also think that is a much better way of thinking instead fo Reaktor session, Reaktor lite which seems to be NI's trend in product marketing. I don't think it has a long shelf life and I believe its only a vain attempt to get people to buy the full versions. I guess the problem for them is that what we make would provide a much greater demand then what is offered in Reaktor, yeah some of the stock instruments are really cool but the fact is that I rarley use them and if that was all I could use in Reaktor I would never buy the program.

The reality of it all in my opinion is this: such a thing wouldn't hurt Reaktor at all. It would make it more interesting and a better product. It wouldn't really stand to compete with hardcoded instruments nor with Reaktor's sale. It would be a minortiy in the VST area but I think a heavily dl minority. Not for nothing it could only convince people to buy a full version of Reaktor so they could customize the ensembles a bit which is why I insist that is be posted as a full structure in the UL.

I guess what cycling has realized is that it can only get people look into Max/Msp themselves. I think Loadammo is already on that point however.

Anyway see pic below.

 

you know I don't care. They will do whatever anyway. I'll choose it or not. whatever. time to STFU

 

Why are instruments like synths and samplers uploaded to the User Library as "ensembles" ?
This is the main thing that makes Reaktor unintuitive for me, the fact that you have to open an "ensemble" (which is actually an instrument) save it, close it, then open another and paste what you've saved. WTF ? It's ridiculous.

 

There is no reason that you can't upload something as an instrument. Just place that in the zip and its all good. I think that most people or at least I myself do this so that it opens with information that I might want to display or just because that is how I had it up on the computer when I saved the file when checking everything.

But you are hitting on an important point. Why should I have to constantly have this aggravation every time I want to use Reaktor. OK for me its not really, I am using stand alone. I use my DAW's for testing SM plugs I haven't actually made music with them in a long time. So by loading instruments I can save my live setup.

However working this way with Ableton's Live is very lacks sense. I really hate it. I would want to open individual plugin made in Reaktor and exported from reaktor. It makes so much more sense and allow for a more effective work flow.

The same goes for Cubase as well. When I was working exclusively with Cubase SX3 I needed to Freeze vst's all the time. This was very problematic as I would have to freeze everything that I had going. I always ran into problems. Opening several instances of Reaktor was a big pain in the but as well by the time I finished all the darn filing I didn't care about what I was doing the idea was lost. So that is not really a good solution...don't even try to recommend it, it doesn't work and is a burden.

The best solution is to be able to export from Reaktor and use that instrument as an everyday plugin with its own snapshot manager. There is no conflicts that way, no going here to open this, find that, click on that into redundancy.

I know no one here wants to hear it, and certainly NI doesn't. I am sure you all think I am crazy by now and that what I am saying is rubbish or only geared for my own intents. But Reaktor has got to get with the times. NO ONE with common sense wants to be bothered with this with this NI. I have a plugins folder and I want to reach for that plugin folder without all the additional hassles that you are putting me through...save here and click there go here click here move that to get this to get that now move that back so I can get to that etc etc etc non-sense! Waste of time! For those that are not working in stand alone this lacks purposeful meaning.

You want us to conform to your standards and just accept what non-sense you programmed into this but its got to be revamped.