Just my 2 cents, NI is losing it's focus w. 1.6

I was thinking about it today and I have to say I really can't stand this growing trend in this forum to want to turn Maschine into DAW when it's supposed to be a drum machine. My argument is look where this has gotten us, sure 1.6 is a really cool update, and don't get me wrong, I looooove my maschine and NI for making it, but what did 1.6 really do for the "DRUM Machine" aspect of this product. Still no time stretch, right. Now I know that time strech will eventually come, and I'm not tripping about it or anything. All I'm saying is that this notion of making machine more into a DAW is distracting the focus of the programmers from working on features that this drum machine really needs. I even read a post where someone was begging for audio tracks that could be recorded into maschine....Why would we need that? Anyway like the title says this is just my opinion......


+1 if you think Maschine should be a drum maschine / sampler above all else......

 

-10......

I don't feel they are trying to make a daw at all but rather the sampler/ sequencer instrument I have been waiting for.
and they are doing a great job. I am very much adamant about needing timestretch among a host of other ideas inside of maschine as native abilities... but 1.6 has not brought maschine closer to a daw but rather closer to overcoming the problems users like my self can't stand when working with things like an mpc and having to midi sync to multiple other instruments... having your instruments inside hosted in maschine give a wide birth to possibilities not possible before in a drum machine.
just my 2 cents.
i do understand and appreciate your view. but I am also aware of the fact that while sure Timestretch isn't in 1.6 plug in support gives way to alot of (i know your gonna hate this) Work arounds. the reason that is more important is that for users of LOGIC who could not at all sequence au inside the host this is a HUGE advantage, and it can give us access to features like timestretch when hosting something like kontakt or reaktor. not perfect but will suffice until the road map is further traveled.
as much as I have railed on this board about the basic features that are missing in maschine I do see the advantage to getting plug in support out first.

 

hmmm.....good points......I guess my real concern again is what I'm reading in the forum......maybe 1.6 doesn't mean that NI is TRYING to make maschine a DAW, but it sure is close, and I guess what scares me is that a lot of people are like "Bring it ON" If maschine becomes too bloated with these kinds of features it may very well wind up being less than optimal as a plugin, which for me was always it's intended use. So I guess it's not about where maschine is right now, but were people seem to want to push it. I just hope NI doesn't by into it, as they "fortunately" do seem to be listening to the posts on these forums regarding feature requests.

For me, I just want something more hands on to replace Battery, anything else and I'll use Logic....as far as not being able to sequence from maschine inside Logic, yeah we should be able to do that, but Logic sequencer is way more powerful, between the hyper editor and the environment I can do stuff other Daws dream of. I just don't understand why anyone would want to use maschine's sequencer which is so basic....

To each his own I suppose. I think a lot of this has to do with what kind of music you produce also. I produce house, so I'm allways having to go deeeeeeep into automation and the hyper editor etc. to get the effects I want. I guess if you doing other genres that aren't so involved than maybe maschine's sequencer is adequate....

 

Both very good points. I also feel the drum maschine/sampler/sequencing parts are the most important. But there is no denying that the hosting solves alot of issues when trying to sequence other instruments. It fills a void that has been there for a while for hardware sequencers/workstations. I do hope that future updates free or not will have more focus on the core percussive based sample and sound editing. Also the sequencer can be refined a bit.
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I will add that I also disagree with trying to make Maschine a DAW. NI should not try to go that rout at all. The hosting fits because it is a production instrument. Bringing plug-ins internally helps the workflow and brings it all toghether. We don't need audio tracks and mastering etc. I hope they leave the hosting as it is with just some touch ups and fixes.
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Regarding the sequencer, people like the MPC style hardware sequencer over something like Logic because it is pattern based and hands on. DAW sequencers do alot of extra things that most musicians don't need. Maschines sequencer is more like an instrument in itself and integrates sequencing with the sound engine on one interface. Totally different then using your DAW with a mouse. It's not meant to compete with the more ditailed and powerful features of Logic.

 

I don't think they are loosing focus at all. Instead NI are doing what very few other developers do - evolving a product in a way that is exciting, unpredictable and innovative. With Maschine they are creating an instrument that cannot be so easily boxed into a neat category such as a 'DAW', 'Drum machine' or 'MIDI controller' anymore - it now has elements of all these things combined in a way that has never been done before. I think its exciting to be a part of.

 

Wicked and Flux you are on point fellas! NI aren't going to have every single feature we want. I really want Timestretching.... This update is awesome! Let's enjoy and appreciate what they have given us, and not dwell on what they "should have". They know what they are doing. It's so much faster composing a song in Maschine in a DAW for me. Let's make music. If they turn it into a DAW, then they do. If you don't like the way Maschine is, then just stick to what you are using. Most of the platinum producers who are using 1.6 aren't complaining. So I guess NI is doing something right.

 

Maschine a DAW?

Im my workflow I use it as a very rapid "ideas capture" device - an aspect of my studio that has been missing since moving from hardware in the 90s to a primarily software based workflow (with only special synth hardware added on the side). Ideas are the most fragile creatures in the studio IMHO. Generally I run Maschine standalone until I've exhausted the ideas for a piece and then bring the project into a DAW to flesh out the arrangement in full.

To consider Maschine to be a mere drum machine is selling it short I feel since there's a heck of alot more possible than just drums. In fact it would be less effective as an a rapid ideas capture device if it's facilities provided only drumming.

I don't feel the additional VST/AU hosting in 1.6 shows a diversion of focus for Maschine. Even if used purely as a drum machine the possibilities offered through being able to host analogue modelled drum synthesis plugins (e.g. MicroTonic, Waldork Attack) and "real" percussion focused plugins (e.g. Addictive Drums, Battery), only further enhances Maschine. Getting the opportunity to host your favourite reverbs (e.g. Altiverb, BReverb, WizooVerb, Reflektor) can only be a good thing for drums too right? For Resampling mahem, I'm loving processing individual kit pieces like kick drums and so forth through my favourite dynamics processing plugins. Having Guitar Rig on hand for it's convenient tuner inside Maschine has also been really useful when sampling and retuning found sounds recorded with Maschine's sampler.

Timestretching is not an aspect which would draw me closer to using Maschine as a DAW since I try to avoid doing that in my DAWs (Live/Cubase/StudioOne) - I like to preserve my transients and so Maschine's existing slicing functions provides the approach of stretching I prefer anyhow. I like to stick with programming my drum parts rather pillaging loop libraries. I hate it when you hear works which sound like a Vengance sample library demo tune.

The prospect of Maschine getting Audio Tracks doesn't bother me personally since I don't really see any difference between sampling and hard disk audio tracks - it's only the means by which the samples are triggered that differs. Actually we've already got the equivalent of a Korg Triton workstation's (admittedly primitive) recording facilities in Maschine. When recordng audio tracks on a Triton, after recording the Sample it would then just take care of the additional steps of placing a big long note event into your sequencer to trigger the recording made. This approach just lacks the precise slipping/sliding events with the same ease a DAW offers - but that's what DAWs are better for anyhow.
; )

Anyhow, I don't feel the 1.6 update is a development distraction. It's just a logical progression for Maschine. I can't praise the addition of this functionality enough!

 

Personally I see maschine as a software based groovebox like a korg electribe or similar. I think the 1.6 update is really helpful and in a way completes NIs product lineup.

 

The audio tracks for me would be for scratching. The way I chop I chop 16 slices so I don't have to scroll through the pads I hate the way NI implemented that by the way. I love ABCD from the MPC much better. Anyway an audio track would allow me to import an entire joint and slice at my discretion. Maybe drag loops onto the 16 sounds. Also with the vst implementation you can use kontakt which is by far the best sampler to date. If you where NI you would do the same thing. This is there first sequencer they make vsts why not have your sequencer be able to load them? And trip off the way they integrated the vsts they do more than just load up you can control them with the hardware that is genius. This is more than a drum machine. After timestretch is implemented there is no reason to use anything else but for an audiotrack. I look at maschine more as a Production Suite now. When I want to make my beat all my tools are at my disposal for production. My main complaint about the MPC wasn't timestretch it was the workflow of integrating your vsts. NI fixed that and now they will one up the MPC again by adding timestretch. Going off of how they are doing the VST integration I think the timestretch will be a monster.
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1 more thing. People need to stop throwing the term DAW around like dirty underpants. If you are going to use it use it's proper term "Digital Audio Workstation" Maschine is already that people. Now even if they did add audio tracks you wouldn't have to use them. Doesn't the MPC5000 have audio tracks? I mean come on everyone doesn't work the same. I think NI is in the business of making money it's much better to try to accomidate as many workflows as possible because not many people work exactly the same. Excuse the typos I'm typing fast so I can finish this and get back to 1.6 in the words of Young Jeezy "I Love It"!
1.6 is good for people who don't sample by the way. Those cats that used an MPC and a Triton are juiced right now.

http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1229490579/DJREBELION-SP.jpg

 

the beauty of this update is that Maschine does not feel bloated despite the fact that this is a MAJOR overhaul to the program. If you don't need VST hosting and other "DAW-like" features, you won't even really notice they are there.

Lets not forget that the heart of Maschine is its sequencer. It is not a "mere drum machine" as quoted earlier, but rather a groovebox much in the style that the MPC or MV8000 is. To say that these products can't be considered "DAWs" is naive.

This update is the best thing for Maschine and now I can see the potential of small tweaks that would make it easier to record audio.

Do I want Maschine to be a DAW? No.

Do I need a DAW now? Not really

 

no way NI did everything right!

best **** EVER!

 

nah ni are on point the are realizing that there are peeps that wanna use maschine as a standalone production tool.

a la a sampling drum/workstation i feel peeps get mad when timestretch requests dont get met but the **** is minor

 

For me it's like an electribe or any other groovebox only that it's brain is powered by my computers CPU. A fully hardware unit may have limitations in forms of it's hardware, it's circuits. Maybe there's not enough juice for a certain effect or for a certain amount of polyphony. Maschine doesnt suffer from those limitations. Being fully software NI can give it any feature they (we) want.
My view on a groovebox is that you use both your hands and not your mouse. For some mouse and a view of tracks going left to right can be creative. Not for me, the mouse hurts my hand so much and it ruins my creativity. For me. Maybe not for anyone else, but for me it ruins my creativity.
With a groovebox and especially maschine, i can make music with closed eyes should i want to. My ears and the nerves on my fingertips gets my brains 100% focus.
Now, if NI want's to add more possibilities to Maschine that i can use in this state - Good!
Ill sit on my bed with dim lights building up loops of either drums or bass or some background noise or .. The genre would be tech house/techno but sometimes i enter chill out or even trance (especially now with vsti's! old-school goa here we go!). Once those loops are ready and stored i will most likely use Live Lite to match loops and then probably enter Reaper for mixing.

 

Yes maschine is a groovebox. Not (and i repeat not!) a daw lol. I used to produce tracks with an emx esx and Yamaha RS7000 so this is a great update. I can customise maschine how i want. Any vst plugin from subtractive va to physical modelling and have actual hardware control (once Ni sorts out parameter naming and batch import eh? )

I only wish i was well enough to enjoy it.

 

I'd say timestretch is more 'DAW' than drum machine but I have to agree there's been some f**king awful posts lately requesting ridiculous features particularly from new users of Maschine. I just hope NI don't take them too seriously :\

 

Totally agreed!

In just the same way Ableton Live keeps growing its feature set, its interface remains absent of bloat (to a large extent). I guess this is why it's so popular with its long time users. NI's approach to implementing plugin hosting while maintaining the hands on beauty of Maschine is elegant to say the least!

 

-10000

 

I always wanted an rs7k..
Wish i was well enough to enjoy it fully too ..... i've been hypomanic for the last few days. I must focus just to relax my face's muscles.. But it's a good mood for working out and going through plugins and compare and sort and ..... anything analytic

By the way, here's something i came up with a few days ago

"It's the ability to never feel satisfaction that drives you forward" ..

 

I hope people understand that I really wasn't complaining about 1.6, I mean I love the update, it's not that plugin hosting is a bad thing, I was just commenting on where this program is going, and this trend that I see.

Now I'm just going to walk away from this thread before I get flamed LoL

 

sorry but this is ridiculous. no offense but i guess there will always be someone who says "but do we really need..."

judging by the moves is doing lately (maschine forum area) ni knows what they are doing - just enjoy the ride. and give the guys some credit.

they have a longterm plan with this.

sure maschine will become more powerful but never cumbersome.

call it a daw, a groovebox, mpc. whatever.
it is the ultimate songwriting and music production tool.

and that timestretch talk is just wrong. drum machine aspects?
are you serious?

i for one am out of my mind with this update.