Keyboard Split / Key Zones

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions' started by OlivierFromGre, Aug 29, 2017.

  1. OlivierFromGre

    OlivierFromGre NI Product Owner

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    I would like to be able to play more than one sound with my keyboard, such as bass on the left hand and synth on the right.
    I think the easiest way to do this in Maschine would be to add the possibility for a sound to select which midi notes trigger the sound. Thus each sound could be independently set to a given key zone. To create the keyboard split just set the sounds to the same link group!

    Here is a simple and effective implementation:
    [​IMG]

    Note:
    With a KK keyboard it is possible to create slits with the controller editor. However I don't like this option because:
    - this way of splitting use KK midi mode, so we lose all the cool controls of the KK automatically linked to sound parameters
    - when applying a custom midi input to a sound, sounds will be triggered with the keyboard even if the sound is not in focus.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
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  2. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    Hello Oliver, thanks for your suggestion.

    Just to clarify, your suggestion is that each Pad sound should have a definable playable note range right?
    For example, Pad1 plays from C-1 to C-2 and Pad2 plays from C#2 to C3.



    Alternatively can do this externally if you have a keyboard with a Split Function.
    (the KK-Series has this option available in Controller Editor.)

    How to:
    In Controller Editor split the keyboard into however many Zones you want, assign a different midi channel to each Zone.
    On Maschine Sound > Input > MIDI select the keyboard (in this case it's my S49) and the MIDI channel for Zone1, repeat this for Zone2 on another sound.
    This way Zone-1 will play a Pad and Zone-2 will play another a pad sound. (The KK needs to be in MIDI mode and the template loaded)


    Setting 2 zones. Blue uses MIDI channel 2 and purple uses MIDI Channel 3
    [​IMG]
    Setting Pad MIDI routing for blue Zone
    [​IMG]
    Setting Pad MIDI routing for purple Zone
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  3. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    7,876
    One old idea was that Maschine's Pad Link would get more advanced to allow such splits within Maschine e.g., Sounds 1 and 2 are linked, but only between C-2 and E0 and at velocities higher than 100. I would love that.
     
  4. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    That sounds interesting. Doesn't the Zone Sampling Panel have a similar feature? There's a Lo/Hi Key Lo/Hi Velocity.. i never tried it though.
     
  5. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    7,876
    Yeah, you can do it that way for samples, which is the same method for creating multi-sampled, multi-layered instruments, but it doesn't have the same flexibility or ease of use as an advanced pad link would e.g., using instrument plugins, drumsynths, splitting the keyboard on the Sound-level in the Maschine software instead of having to rely on your keyboard's software/features etc.
     
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  6. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    Basically, it would be an advanced and new Pad-Link, with that many functionalities it would need its own panel on the software/hardware. I personally find that very interesting but I am not sure it would be a useful addition for most users. In order to not hijack the OP too much open a feature suggestion about it if you think it's an important enough feature.
     
  7. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    7,876
    But what I've added is more relevant that your first response. ;)

    The thread, as I understand it, is for Maschine to have a keysplit functionality. That is a big part of what I've talked about. You just said
    :D

    Going by the approach, I hope you'll be closing the realtime timestretch request threads by telling people to just buy Ableton Live. :p
     
  8. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    7,876
    Being serious again though...

    Such a pad link feature wouldn't need loads of settings though. Just low/high key for the keysplit boundary and low/high velocity for a velocity split. It could certainly be much more complicated than that, but those four parameters would allow a wealth of possibilities.
     
  9. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    Maybe it is more relevant, but it doesn't offer a possible solution to fix the problem now, which is something you usually offer, I mean you are the king of workarounds. I didn't close any thread or dismissed the user request i just explained an alternative method just in case he (or anyone else who reads this thread) is unaware it can be done with some keyboards. But i get your point, ill edit my post a bit. Please don't be mean I am sensitive :)

    Feels like there's a big difference between the simple "split" the OP requested and an advanced pad link designed to layer sounds together, but if it's simple then it sounds great.
     
  10. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    7,876
    Ooh, you are a bit sensitive, aren't you? :p
    It was no attack or anything, don't think it was. I know you didn't close any thread, but you kind of did close down the suggestion a bit by saying there can be a way to do it if you have the right keyboard. Proposing a workaround on an FR thread, fine, I've done it loads, but sometimes the suggestion should also stand and be discussed even if it can already be done in one way or another. I think this is one of those occasions. :)

    It can be kept very simple. The pad link settings per Sound (link group and master/slave) would just get some company in the shape of low/high key for the keysplit boundary and low/high velocity, which would define how that Sound responds when triggered via pad link.

    So if Sound 1 is a double bass and Sound 2 is a pitch-stretched triangle sample, Sound 2 would obviously only want its lowest register to be played along with the double bass so would have C-2 to E0 set with slave enabled.

    Or for drums, if Sound 1 is a slaved 909 bass kick and Sound 2 is a jazz crash-ride cymbal, Sound 1 could have just the top end of velocity set (e.g., 120-127) so that the kick only plays too when the ride is hit hardest.

    Sounds could each also have the same parameters in pad mode to define how they respond to being played.
     
  11. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    My intention was to inform, not to close down anything, if it came across that way maybe i should be more careful about my wording, i dont think you would feel like i was "closing down" anything if i was a regular user, i shared plenty of workarounds and you never complained about it, why start now?
    Yes. It should always be discussed. I am not here dismiss suggestions based on my personal opinion. So far the only rule is not having thread duplicates/things already present in the sticky for better organization. That's all. I am attempting to help not to silence anyone.

    I'm all for your ideas and whatever else other's might add to this topic. Let's wait and see @OlivierFromGre thoughts are since he made the original suggestion.
     
  12. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    7,876
    So you're not a "regular user" any more? :p:D:cool:

    Jokes and attempts at banter aside, if my responses bothered or even upset you at all, I genuinely apologise. I was just responding to what was in the thread and taking the original post as a feature suggestion rather than a workflow query. There was no complaint about providing the CE keyboard split method (or any other methods you post), though it was stretching the definition of workaround a fair bit, you must agree. ;)

    Anyway, yes, onward with feature discussions. It's very likely that keysplitting with keyboard software is sufficient for the OP. But it's not for me. :p
     
  13. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    No. My mom says I am special! :cool:
    It's all good, I still love you.
     
  14. OlivierFromGre

    OlivierFromGre NI Product Owner

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    Thanks a lot for your feedback!

    This solution does not really suit my needs. I indeed have a KK, and I know the possibility to use the controller editor. If I use this way of splitting the keyboard in midi mode, I lose all the cool controls of the KK automatically linked to sound parameters, and I use a lot these knobs!
    Moreover I don't want to change Midi Input in Maschine, because the sounds will be triggered with the keyboard even if the sound is not in focus.
    [​IMG]

    Yes indeed! It is possible to have different samples according the the key range / velocity. I am looking for a way to make the same with sounds or instruments.

    I think what @Mr36 propose could fit my needs, with more link group options.

    I imagined something in the Midi Input window. I tried to draw my thoughts:
    soundKeyRange.png
    This would be easy to implement and to use, and would not bother users who don't want to use it :)

    What do you think?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2019
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  15. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    7,876
    Yeah, a simple filter on the MIDI input page would be very useful too.

    Maybe this is two separate suggestions after all. :p
     
  16. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    That looks awesome, great suggestion! +1 Very simple solution.
    Do you mind editing your OP and put that picture there and also the info you said about the KK-S so anyone who stumbles in this thread can get a quick idea of your suggestion?
     
  17. OlivierFromGre

    OlivierFromGre NI Product Owner

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    Done!
     
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  18. OlivierFromGre

    OlivierFromGre NI Product Owner

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    Stupid question: what shall I do to include this idea in the "most requested features" post?
     
  19. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    The rules about what gets to go in the sticky are still blur since it's a new thing, but the point of it is to consolidate the top desires of the community, basically threads with the most positive feedback, (likes, comments/+1s,etc).
     
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  20. OlivierFromGre

    OlivierFromGre NI Product Owner

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    Ok, thanks. So I cross my fingers for my post to promoted as a sticky :)
    By the way I discovered last night I am able to create keyboard split in Kontakt. Not very quick to setup, but at least it gives me a solution to my problem.
     
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