KK MK2 - What happened to a thoughtful top-down implementation of features.

I have been a dedicated NI software and hardware owner since Reaktor 1.0. For a company that has done so much in terms of revolutionizing sound for the past 17 years I am so utterly dismayed by the lack of imagination in hardware/software integration. Yes, NI has great looking hardware with great looking lights and screens and the promise of a beautifully integrated workflow. Yes the controllers are fantastic with the best in class action and build quality. However, the integration among NI’s own hardware and software as well as DAW is FRUSTRATING especially in light of such great possibilities. Here are some of the issues:

1. KK MK2 and Maschine MK3 while sharing the same screens have inconsistently implemented features. It seems that two teams that have not communicated worked on each product. WHY???

- no way to set Fixed Velocity value on MK2
- MK2 doesn’t send after touch to Maschine so there is no way to use Note Repeat with velocity.
- touchstrip on KK is utterly useless in Maschine
- focused sounds are not automatically selected when using KK MK2 in Key Mode. It’s a nightmare to find and edit sounds. Seems like such an obvious workflow tweak.
- can’t select events in Maschine on MK2
- no ideas view on Maschine MK3 like in KK MK2
- no groove functions whatsoever on MK2
....and the list goes on

There are so many buttons that are unassigned and so much screen real estate to use. I’m baffled by the many omissions in supporting Maschine by KK MK2. While I own MK3 there are many times when working in a DAW that I only have room on my desk for the MK2. I don’t think I’m alone here. It should fully support crucial Maschine functions.


2. KK MK2 doesn’t send ARP and Scale to DAW in MIDI mode or otherwise (in Logic). What a missed opportunity with the new hardware!!!! How great would it be to have all the smart functions available for any synth? How great would it be to be able to edit individual notes in chords? Why is this not available? The brains of the controllers seem fully capable of sending ARP and Scale MIDI data.

3. Maschine MK3 doesn’t offer DAW mixer or even transport controls. Why not? If the KK does it what’s stopping Maschine MK3 from doing it? It would be great to, at times, just use the MK3 with the DAW when working on Maschine-heavy projects. On that note, why not have Maschine MK3 be able to control Komolete Kontrol software? it would be SO useful in DAWs when just using a Maschine controller!!! I bring this up here because it’s an issue with integrated features across NI hardware and software. It’s as if the right side of the brain doesn’t communicate with the left. I know folks will say that you can use a Mackie template, but it’s hardly an elegant solution especially if you also want to use the pads for note entry.

4. Other workflow issues galore! So many little yet frustrating decisions.

- when browsing groups in Key Mode on KK2 the browser sends you back to Keyboard Mode every time you load a group. This is very annoying when searching for groups to try out.

- in the DAW mixer you have to press shift and push the encoder up to get to Pan mode. Really guys????? Why not just press down on the encoder. This intuitive action is unused in MIDI mode.

I fear that many of these things will not be fixed in the foreseeable future. I’m hoping that NI will rethink a way to make these wonderful hardware pieces live up to their full potential. I think we deserve this and NI deserves to be great. The integration, rollout and implementation seems mindless and scattered. I’m sorry to say that I regret spending the money on the new hardware at this point. It seems that more often than not, whenever I intuitively want to reach for a function while I’m working, it is not there or there is a convoluted and ill thought out way about it. There is little top down ingenuity at play here especially as it relates to using the hardware in DAW mode, where I believe most serious users would want to use it.

 

/agree - I predict 0 useful responses from NI.

 

Well we may get a response on some of the issues I raised hopefully. I want to be optimistic. I DO think however that NI should appoint a team to look at overall integration across NI software as well as DAW and rethink their approach. I’d be happy to help.

 

Very well said and comprehensive. There are many inconsistencies.

 

Thank you Chilled. I don’t often write such lengthy pieces on forums, but I felt compelled in this case because I really do care about NI products and I’m sad to see so much waste of potential. I’d love to see a more broad minded approach to development that takes into account a pro workflow in DAW and across NI software.

 

Yep, all good. Wouldn't expect anything back from them though, unfortunately.

 

It's certainly good to share experiences and thoughts. Potential users can then get the info they need to make a proper decision especially since both Maschine and Komplete Kontrol have now been in the market for a few years, the natural thing is to expect them to evolve into something people are asking for.

 

I just want to say that I do use NI products in my last 3 releases and overall I have been more productive and my workflow has simplified. However, I there are areas of integration and cross functionality that would be such a major win for NI as you have mentioned DuffcatNI. I would also love to see the implementation of Audio tracks as first posted to the forum quite some time ago. Admittedly I use Maschine as my main DAW now (thanks to the rapid workflow) and not just for beats but full tracks in the ChillJazz, NuJazz genres. But I have hit limitations and have had to develope methods to work around those issues. One of the issues is having patterns that can't cross scene's. There are times when its very difficult to get around strict structure. Of course with Maschine that is both its upside and at time its downside. While I have used Maschine as a plugin for Ableton or Logic Pro X, I prefer to complete compositions in Maschine and Master in Logic. I do hope that Native Instruments has some wonderful functionality coming soon that will take the software to the next level and that most of the hardware can be updated via the "firmware" to accept that new functionality.

 

My hope is that NI will look at their ‘ecosystem’ which has now grown significantly and ensure that it thrives in a variety of environments.

Hey Chilled. Thanks for replying. With respect to Maschine achieving full DAW functionality, it is literally 10 years behind Logic, Cubas and Pro Tools. There is a huge amount of features that DAWs have which I can't see implemented in Maschine EVER because it is mainly a composition tool rather than a full production environment and I think it should and will remain just that. I simply suggest that as a composition tool, it needs to be better integrated into pro DAWs as well as have better integration with Komplete Kontrol and the various pieces of NI Hardware. I think this is the Big Picture that the NI development team is missing.To clarify, I suggest both KK and Maschine controllers should offer the same deep DAW features (Mixer, Transport and Smart Scale MIDI directly from controllers) as well as function interchangeably with Maschine and KK: KK controller should be able to fully control Maschine and Maschine controller should be able to fully control KK software both within a DAW environment and in stand alone modes. If NI achieves this they would have a real winner.

Now with respect to recording Audio and MIDI across scenes in Maschine I totally agree and I do believe that NI is Beta testing this right now. We should see this feature shortly.

 

Good points DuffcatNI. I actually agree with the full DAW accessment. That is why I enjoy composing in Maschine rather than Live or Logic currently. Its far quicker and I prefer a fast workflow that is simpler. Its very easy to get off course in LIVE. However the addition of Audio Track and Midi crossing Scenes would really be at the top of my list of desires in respect to my compositional needs. I have tried many time to integrate Maschine as a plugin to Live or Logic but IMHO it just adds to much overhead unless Maschine is simply handling a Kit. That being said I totally get the point regarding Integration across the hardware: Maschine & KKS. I personally have MK2, KKS49 and Komplete 11 as well as a number of 3rd party VST's and a Sample Library. I would love to see KK and Maschine controllers have the same degree of functionality. I also would like to see Maschine software get Aftertouch and MPE as MPE is obvously coming on stronger all the time. I had recently thought about adding the Seaboard Block to my controllers but then read about lack of MPE or Aftertouch in Maschine software. So once again to utilize the Seaboard Block it would be back to Ableton Live again. All in all I certainly get your points regarding the development process. I agree that NI would have a complete winner then.

 

Your 2nd point can be solved via this:



Thankfully done by JesterMgee

 

RE the video, Live makes this kind of thing super easy. I think Logic has some problems in this department with getting that same ARP information. I'm not a Logic user so I don't know but I have seen some topics discussing possible workarounds but they are way more indepth than setting up a simple track and receiving MIDI from the plugins smart output.

 

This doesn't work in Logic.

 

What a mess....
I made a feature suggestion a few years ago asking to be able to use KK soft with Maschine hardware, and Maschine soft with KK hardware.
I suppose it was ignored to push people to buy both KK and Maschine hardware.
Now we can see it's backfiring on NI, because owning both controllers is counter-productive the way they are integrated each others and with the NI softwares.
Like op said NI are making beautiful hardware but you must be ready to suffer a lot of headaches and frustration using them.
I spent tons of hours searching for tweaks, configuring NI softs, presets, database, hardware and concluded it's not worth the pain when on the other side you see a company who doesn't to seem to care on small but crucial aspects of their products.

 

The logic issues are because of the limitations of au2 plugins , logic users are also affected because kk doesn't support au plugins.
I only really use it with maschine and the kk mk2 is much more integrated than the mk1 or any other keyboard, in no way do I find it counter productive. I agree it's missing a few functions in some areas and I'm sure improvements will be made ,but overall it's a great keyboard which gives you access to some useful maschine features when your not at the maschine controller.

 

I wouldn't say it is counter productive but I argue that it is nowhere near its full potential at being integrated. I'm not sure why we or NI should settle for mediocrity. Great products are not 'great' because they are somewhat useful.