Kombine - T3 Controller prototype

Well done gentlemen - when can I buy one please?!

 

Nice job guys...

On the X-fader assignment controls.

It would be cool to be able to assign 2 or more channels to one side of the x-fader. The current design is like the Pioneer DJM500/600 which is limiting.

To explain why, here is a situation.

You have a loop running and you have a vocal sample. Both are synced to each other and you'd like to bring them in as "one" track, while still having complete control of the EQ and EFX of each sample.

I would go for a 3 way switch (A/B/none) on each channel.



I still feel EQ kills would still be better off alongside the EQ knobs, but I guess I can live with it...



p.s. I would delete the audio inputs from the JPEG (left over from the A&H mixer you used as your base) as you are going to get the question "Is this an audio mixer too??" again and again . We all know how many stupid question get asked by people who don't read the full thread...

;-)

 

1.) I agree with the kill switch position - it is like the EQ (slider) placement on the vestax 07. Once you get used to it it is great - like using a graphic eq. It would nice to have the eqs like this, but it would take way too much real estate.

2.) Pitch controls... I just thought of something - although traktor has a decent sync function, I don't always have time to make sure my songs are BPM'd correctly, so I need a way in real time to adjust pitch (speed) - plus having a pitch control allows for different effects or working with a single track that may have more than one tempo or time signature within the piece. In short, it needs a pitch slider for each deck. I think the easiest and most effective way to do this would be to add a toggle for each gain slider to make them into pitch sliders. Otherwise you'd need to add 4 more sliders somewhere.

I also think there is room if you make the transport controls fit under the tap/bpm/pitch contorls to add a slider to the left of these (move the buttons to the right slightly). When I am fading out a track, I like to fade at the same time I am doing pitch effects - but +/- buttons won't cut it, I need a pitch slider and a separate volume fader. So I could set the focus to the deck I want, and be able to control pitch and volume at the same time.

3) Gain knob in addition to volume fader - I am not sure if T3 supports this, but if you are using the faders a lot to bring 3-4 tracks in/out in time with a beat (suppose you like the first half of the bassline on deck 1 and the second half of the bassline on deck 2), it seems necessary to have a trim adjustment for the gain, so you can make sure the volume fader is at the correct volume at the top of the slider.

It gets crazy real quickly if you are repeatedly bringing deck 1 in and out but the fader should only go to 2/3 while you are doing the same with deck 2, but the faders should not go higher than 1/2 (and then there's track 3 & 4 to still think about). The only question is if traktor supports a separate trim adjustment in addition to the volume faders.

4) how about a crossfader curve control between or next to the cue/monitor controls?

5) I do not think adding a trackball would be redundant (and it is certainly cheaper than a trackpad). Not everyone uses a laptop (think nightclub install or closet/studio DJ setup).

My preferred setup (if even with a laptop) would be an LCD monitor and a keyboard above the controller, with an integrated trackball instead of a mouse. Trackballs are way more precise and have less hand fatigue than either trackpads or mice. Making room next to the controller for a mouse really screws up the nice compact 12" wide footprint, but if I raise the mouse up next to the keyboard, I'm really asking for carpal tunnel. Professional lighting control desks have 3" trackballs built-in and it is amazing how much more user friendly it feels because of this.

Maybe there could be an optional add-on unit to add the trackball and a second transport (w/jog) to bring the unit to 19" wide (standard rack width).

 

Another satisfied customer! Realistically, I'd venture to say we'd like to have something available around mid-February.

Adrian is testing out components and happy with the results so far. As soon as a T3 demo is released (we hope in 3 weeks or so), we'll be trying that out (as an aside, I'm gonna need some convincing the app is ready before I actually buy it), making some design nudges based on real-world use, then building prototypes for both of us to test using our different styles & playing conditions. Once we're happy with that, we get cases fabricated & finalized, and should be able to begin making more for sale. We are trying to use the best-quality components we can without going over a $600 sale price. So far we're pretty sure we can do that.

Current plan is to provide the Kombine controller, templates & blanks if possible, a .tks file, and an instruction/guide.

I feel obligated to say that, though we are confident that the build quality and performance of the Kombine will be pro-level, we started building these entirely to have our own T3-specific controllers--in other words, we're not a company, we're hobbyists. This is my wussy disclaimer to mention that we aren't UL-approved or any of the myriad things necessary to sell such an item above-board. But because we really ain't in this for huge profits (we should be so lucky), we're honest about the controllers, easy to get hold of and work with if anyone needs info or has problems, and will certainly refund the money to anyone who isn't happy with his or her controller. ==end of wussy disclaimer==

 

Matt--
Going to discuss some of your suggestions with Adrian. I'll respond asap.

 

some further comment for you.

Sync all - Not a good idea for 3 or 4 deck play. you'll avoid it like the plague. Sync All makes sense with 2 deck you bring both decks back in time but when you play with 4 decks and you use master tempo you really have 5 things you are keeping all nicely lined up unfortunately waht happens is thyou need to tweak decks by adjusting phase sync here and there and you may get perfect sound by having 1 deck on the center line and 3 decks adjusted slight off center + or minus. Press sync gets you an instant train wreck. You think things can go Pete in hurry on two decks? You'll be impressed by how faster, easier and nastier it sounds with four decks.

X-Fader Assign using a knob forces you into a 1 or 4 situation which doesn't work with the implementation in Traktor. The Xfader assign in Traktor 3 allow you to individually assign each deck to A(left) or B (right) or not assigned meaning the X-fader has no effect on the deck at all. The upfader controls all levels for the deck in that case my best advice is that rather that fight the Konvoluted logic that will be required trim cost and leave X-Fader entirely in the UI. Face it if you are playing with ONLY two decks your assignment will be set at the start of the session and won't change. I have found when mixing with 3 or 4 decks (which I do all the ime now that I'm used to it) I either leave the X-Fader centered or unassign all and play like Rufus does entirely (almost) on the upfaders. If you need to reign in cost and maximize functionality keep sight of which controls you always need immediate access to. Consider these your critical controls. When you look at thinngs in that light X-fader assign on the midi controller is an infrequently used nice to have. I would trade those out for buttons to move a beat marker forward or backward and Deck Pitch Bend up down (to adjust the grid to the waveform) in an instant.

EQ section balance controls. You might give consideration to providing press to hide rotary balance control. You would be amazed at how much you can change the soundstage of a mix by floating a backing track out to the left or right in a mix then bring it into the center as you bring the track in full. If you use a half size press to hide control that can be pressed down be out of the way if you don't want to use it. Once again though this is a lesser used control if you need to trim costs then this one that can be handled in the GUI.

I'm Emailing you some new Hi-res Screenshots too, I'm sure you'll find intriguing.

Phil

 

About the FX, each FX also has up to four button assignments. Beat masher as 'Sync' 'Freeze' 'Tap' and 'On' and these would be useful to be accessable.... so that's five buttons, FX Select is the fith.

 

And if you do end up sticking with a knob for x-fader assign, can you make it so you can assign "no channel" to both sides... The number of times I've whacked in a channel on the upfaders (this is on club mixers, my own mixer has a hamster switch that allows me to turn the x-fader off altogether) only to find that no sound comes out. Of course I start looking at the obvious things... is there a cable unplugged somewhere...? Eventually I find that I've knocked the crossfader accidentally, it's annoying as f**k, and it's always the last thing you think of!

Cheers,
Ruf

 

That would be 20 buttons (5 buttons x 4 decks)! The FX button is meant to cycle through the fx. We're hoping Traktor allows this.

 

Yes its possible to do exactly what you asked.

The Hotkey Setup is Deck | FX | Effect Select
Options are Next | Previous | Set Default

See attached pic for details.

Steve, Check your Yahoo Email too. I sent you some other stuff of interest. you might already have it by now though.

Phil

 

Phil--got it and also forwarded to Adrian. Many many thanks!

It's become apparent that T3 is deep and customizable enough -- both in the UI and behind the scenes -- that we're gonna have to work with it before going on much further with this. Whatever we come up with will be mostly a solidification of the current design, I'm fairly sure, but it would be silly for us to go much further without actually USING the app we're making a damn controller for! So we'll be asking questions of y'all over the next few weeks, but probably not posting more mockup pix for a bit.

Two quick questions for now.

1. I see that there are no kills for the Xone EQ emulation but there are for the other EQs. Best I can tell the Xone doesn't HAVE kills. I have a sneaking suspicion that when the Xone is selected, keyboard/midi controls for EQ kills won't work. Can anyone verify this? And does it change the landscape for anyone wanting EQ kills on their controller?

2. It seems you can change the tempo without changing the pitch/key of a track, but I see no ability to do the opposite--change the pitch/key while keeping the tempo the same. In short, keymatching is now a thing of the past. Please tell me I'm wrong! Cuz if this is gone, I'm gonna scream that it be put into the next update--I put a lot of effort into learning keymatching to make some beautiful transitions, and I can't imagine mixing with 4 decks without it!

Also, those who are currently playing with T3: Can you tell me what MIDI controller setup you're using for the time being? It's clear that my faderfox ain't gonna cut it, and all I got to couple it with is an old Phat Boy. Just wondering how everyone's getting by.

Thanks again everyone for all your input!

 

Hi boysteve,

had the chance to take a look at Traktor 3 on the Mac of a Friend. The key is changeable seperatly for every Deck. It's a single knob, which shows the Value of the currently activated deck. So i guess it would be no Problem to integrate this in your controler. The knob is not on the standard interface but can be added via right mouseklick in the upper section of traktor.

 

Any update on this? It looks to be exactly what I'm looking for!

 

A standalone controller would be great,because I just love my Xone-92 and think the 3D is a alittle bit to expensive...But beeing an old (43) DJ I´m not that interested in the midi-world. I would like a gadget with not to many knobs and faders, a jogwheel for every player and faders for pitch/speed + some swithes cue/Play/step and a recordcase browser, rackmount and I´m satisfied..
Keep up the good work!!
/Janne Deejay since 1980
Linköping Sweden

 

Well, I do have news but I'm sorry to say it isn't good. Adrian and I are indeed going to build the Kombine controllers for ourselves, but it turns out we will not be able to sell them. The onboard MIDI OS is MIOS, and the guy who wrote it as a purely open-source software refuses to allow it to be used in units produced for any profit whatsoever, and refuses to allow it in units that are in any way mass produced. It's a condition of the use of the software. This means each one would have to be built one at a time, by hand.

Naturally this isn't feasible, at cost or for profit. We're free to distribute schematics & the like to those who want to build their own, and we probably will. I'll still post pix of the finished product in case they're helpful to anyone thinking of building their own controller (now that we've been able to actually play with the app, changes will certainly be forthcoming).

We weren't exactly expecting to get rich off of this, but we're still disappointed we won't be able to market it. Unless of course we get hold of some other OS that allows this.

 

Janne--
I'm 45. Wotthehell are you talking about?

 

Looks like it's the Kontrol DJ for me then. Shame really. Your prototype looked far better.

Good luck regardless.

 

Believe me, we're not very happy about it, either. And if the situation changes, you guys will be the first to know. Thanks very much for your good wishes!

 

Isn't it possible to ship the Controller without this piece of Software? Every User has then the posibility to Flash it on the machine by himself (on his own responsibility).
Thats the way some Linux Distribution go when there are Licensing problems. Exclude the Package and let the people install it themself.

 

Hi,
in the picture you can see the settings for a XONE 92 LOW EQ Killing with the Hotkey "E".
unfortunately you need a reset button because this feature doesnt work in toggle mode

@NI : would be nice in V 3.0.2 !!

chong