KOMPAKT: a big JOKE

Discussion in 'KOMPAKT' started by sysfran, Oct 29, 2005.

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  1. sysfran

    sysfran NI Product Owner

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    I bought that **** Kompatkt few days ago, I discover that each sample can be given a key range for no more than one octave. There was nothing like that on presentation or specifications of that ****.
    What can we do with only one octave for a sample.
    I pay 180 euros for nothing.
    I ask NI to give me an update with more than that f...... one octave range.
    I wait for the response.
    Shame on them.
     
  2. sysfran

    sysfran NI Product Owner

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    v1.0.8 updated
    Big problem.
    I use Kompaqt with cubase SL3 on VST mode.
    It still working with cubase. Exept when I try to slice a .wav sample on virtual keyboard, keys appear in red and stay like that, no sound on keys.

    Do you have same problem ?
     
  3. Jinsai

    Jinsai NI Product Owner

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    Yes, I have the same problem (keys stay red, no sound plays).

    I also agree that it is shameful that keys can only be mapped to a single octave, and that this is not clearly messaged everywhere.

    It is also shameful that they cannot be edited once applied - if you make a mistake, you have to clear the entire keymapping and start over.

    I am only inclined to gripe about this product because the quality of the other Native Instruments software I own (Pro-53, Reaktor, Absynth, Battery 2, Electronic Instruments V2) is all very high.

    For a sample-PLAYBACK VST, it's not bad. But Native Instruments markets it as a true sampler - a "budget Kontakt".

    Given that, it is absolutely unconscionable that the product "functions" the way it does. And the fact that it is buggy on top of such limited functionality means I am (unfortunately) writing it off for now.
     
  4. crowning

    crowning NI Product Owner

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    55
    Do you mean for one single sample?
    If yes this makes absolutely sense because stretching a sample
    over more octaves degrades the sound quality very much.
    At least one sample for each octave is a good compromise.
     
  5. Jinsai

    Jinsai NI Product Owner

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    Not all sampling is about re-creating other instruments through accurate multi-sampling. (In fact, I would argue that recreating other instruments via multi-sampling is about the least interesting use of sampling there is.)

    The ability to transpose any single sample any arbitrary amount is a basic feature of every other sampler ever made. Sometimes you want distortion or strangeness, you want to take a very short, high-pitched sound and make it a very low-pitched one, or vice-versa.
     
  6. Markus @ NI

    Markus @ NI NI Team NI Team

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    989
    Hi all,

    just a quick comment after reading the last few posts.

    where did you get the idea from that Kompakt is more than a sample player with effects/modulation/automation? plus a great library, of course.

    nowhere on our website nor on the packaging could I find anything about sample mapping or editing. This is clearly where Kontakt comes in.


    Best,
    Markus
     
  7. Jinsai

    Jinsai NI Product Owner

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    32
    Markus -

    Where did I get this idea? All over the site. Here are some examples. This page(http://www.native-instruments.de/index.php?id=samplingline_us):
    The cheapest, most basic hardware sampler I can think of was the Casio SK-1, which allowed you to transpose a single sample up and down the keyboard - it's a 20 year old toy, but it allows multi-octave transposition. The vintage Akai S1000 offered mapping and transposition. I would argue that Kompakt imposes limits, it doesn't expand them.

    I would consider anything that calls itself a "pro sampler" to be capable of transposing a sample over more than an octave, and also provide decent sample mapping.

    A more accurate product description would read:
    I would also consider either changing the name of Kompakt away from something that is clearly intended to reference Kontakt to something like "Kompakt Player" and/or consider moving it to a different product group. It's really more of a ROMpler or wavetable synth.

    Then there's this page (http://www.native-instruments.de/index.php?id=niessentials_us):
    Again, calling it a "sampler" implies it is capable of what most people would consider basic sampler functionality. A more accurate description would be:
    Or "sample player".

    Yes, if you go to the Kompakt page (http://www.native-instruments.de/index.php?id=kompakt_us), down in the feature set it does explicitly say:
    ...but the term "sampler" has certain implications. It would be more accurate to call it an "Instrument for playing back and customizing sample libraries".

    On the same Kompakt page it also says things like:
    Perhaps I am being too fussy, but the word "professional" implies a certain quality and feature set, and that isn't the dumbed-down/feature-poor implementation Kompakt delivers.

    I'd consider the sample map and transposition fairly important instrument parameters for a sampler.

    I could go on citing pages and the various references to "Kompakt's professional features" - but there are 2 important things to point out:

    1. The number of times the word "professional" is used far exceeds the number of times the limitations are discussed.
    2. The tutorial which actually explains the crippled sample mapping is only available to those who have purchased the program!

    Looking at the KVR Audio site, they make a distinction between "samplers" and "sample players". A quick check of their database shows the competition:

    Halion Sampler ($300) and Halion Player ($90) make a clear distinction.

    IK SampleTank is called a "sample workstation".

    I am not saying I think the marketing is deliberately misleading. However, I think it is disingenuous to state that because sample mapping and editing aren't explicitly called out as features we shouldn't assume they're in a sampler when every other "professional sampler" offers them.

    The fact that Kompakt offers other "Pro features" like DFD, layering, and key splits makes the lack of the basic features cited more striking.

    The argument that "these features aren't called out" is akin to calling the B4 organ a synthesizer - albeit one without a filter, envelope shaper, modulation routings, etc. It might be technically true, but it is a misleading use of a common term.

    Another way to look at it - there are a number of posts on this board related to these issues, which would seem to indicate the product description does not accurately convey the product feature set.

    As I mentioned earlier, I am a strong endorser of Native Instruments' products and am just surprised at how atypically poor Kompakt is.
     
  8. Markus @ NI

    Markus @ NI NI Team NI Team

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    989
    Hi Jinsai,

    thanks for your feedback - great points here!

    I will see if we can change this terminology. The last thing I want is unhappy customers because we raised the wrong expectations!


    Best,
    Markus
     
  9. djwayne

    djwayne NI Product Owner

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    11
    While were on the subject, any idea what happened to my order ?? I ordered Kompakt on 12/21/05 and recieved an immediate e-mail saying I should recieve it in a couple of days, after a week of waiting I sent a e-mail wanting to know what's up, two days later I get an e-mail saying it's back ordered and should be in sometime this week, well this week is almost over, I've sent another e-mail requesting information, two days later, no response....no Kompakt....today is 1/8/06.

    I can undestand everybody must be off parting for the holidays, but come on already, the holidays are over kids, time to get to work.....sitting here steaming.......it was supposed to be delivered in 2 days......not three weeks....
     
  10. djwayne

    djwayne NI Product Owner

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    Excuse me, today is 1/06/06.
     
  11. djwayne

    djwayne NI Product Owner

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    11
    Yea !! I just got my Fed Ex shipping notice !! Thank You !!!!
     
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