Komplete 2 on Mac OS X 10.5.2

I have Komplete 2 that I used to work on with my previous mac. I just bought a new Mac Pro and after installation and upgrading everything through the service center, no plug in works in Cubase 4.1.2

Can someone help me? Or is Komplete 2 not compatible?
It's costing me a bundle!

 

Welcome =)

None of the plugins in K2 are UB or Leopard compatible. K2 was released four years ago, after all, and every plugin it's been either upgraded by at least one version or discontinued.

ew

 

They don't care about this for years Buy elsewhere

I was yearning to upgrade Komplete 2 but for the last few years but the cheapest price was always 750.00 even when every other upgrade was 1/2 price.
Instead I was able to upgrade Logic pro for 199.99 which included 5 jam packs, Bias Peak that was even older I upgraded to a for even more than the original Peak Pro for 199.00, Reason from any prior version for only 129.99. It has been four years since this software was introduced but my software from Native hasn't worked since I bought the first intel imac which came out on 10 Jan 2006.
So 4 years is pretty misleading. So it hasn't been 4 years for me. I've waited and waited for some type of upgrade at a "reasonable price" for years and have never seen an company not even offer an upgrade path at all (which native instruments did for several months the only option was to purchase at full price.)
so for 529.00 I've upgraded several pro audio programs that were even older and still worked on UB/Intel machines.
I voted with my wallet against this company buy purchasing software companies who care if you purchased the product and still offer an upgrade path that doesn't disappear. The other companies are more in line with today's market Logic 8 dropped the price in half recently from 1,000 to 500 full price and added the 5 jam packs.

I think this company is pretty out of line and I work for an Apple reseller and have been telling over 100 of my customers of my experience with Native Instruments for years now.
What a crappy way to treat customers. I did love the product when It worked on my mac years ago. I feel shafted and will rejoice if NI either offers a decently priced upgrade for Komplete 2 owners or if NI doesn't I hope they go out of business.

 

When Komplete 4 came out, you could upgrade from 2 for $399...

http://www.nativeinstruments.de/forum_us/showthread.php?t=51871

That was the end of 2006 until April 2007. Where's the "years" that you've been waiting, sir?

So, what Apple does with breaking compatibility with all the existing music software (thus forcing their customer to spend even more) is OK, and NI's the guilty party here?

ew

 

Why an upgrade 500.00 more than any other software company ?

Apple made a move that every other software company let you upgrade for @ 100-200 bucks.

So why does NI stick it to us K2 owners by always charging 500-700 more than everyone else for software that has around the same full version pricing ?

Can you name any other software company that an upgrade from a full version costs 750 ? So who's the bad guy here ?

It's like they hold you ransom with software. That doesn't work for me.

Apple isn't the bad guy to me because at the time IBM couldn't even supply them with the chips they had promised Apple, and half of those chips were defective. Not to mention the road plan that Intel was showing them was more processing power and less heat. They needed to adapt. It even made their machines more compatible with hardware and you could even run Windoze. Not having to buy "apple type ram" at a premium price was also a benefit.

This software form NI requires having a state of the art machine to run it. I just feel abandoned by NI.

Why was this particular update never discounted for more than 60 days ?

Seems like profiteering and nickel and dime-ing us vs. a reasonably priced upgrade. Would it have cost them anything to sell this for 1/2 price like every other upgrade on sale from NI except for Komplete 2 owners ? What did we do wrong ?
1/2 of something should help there bottom line better than 1/2 of nothing. Not to mention quite a lot of pissed off customer base.

The threads on this subject seem quite active usually 3-4 pages but they always seem to get shut down. Hmmm.

I wonder how long this thread will last ?

I would have continued to buy more upgrades if the one from komplete 2 was ever available for under 400 bucks and for more than 60 days seems like NI shot themselves in the foot.

I've never seen a company charge you a grand and then treat you like you never bought the product to begin with. Then insult you by offering it to people at the same price after only buying one or two of the single products.

Loved the product when it worked. Now I've recently purchased upgrades for Logic Pro, Digital Perfomer, Reason, Peak Pro and the updates were from software released sometimes 7 or 8 years after it was originally purchased, all for less than the one of the upgrade from NI, if you added all the full version list prices they are more than just the Komplete. Seems an inflated sense of value on NI's part

I still get offers from them all the time but all at over 700 bucks and I'm waiting for an upgrade for K2 owners for a reasonable price, but I don't expect it because I've been waiting for years. Maybe NI will be nice instead of greedy. But I am a "glass half full type"

 

Note: the following is my own personal spin, and not necessarily that of NI:

I will repeat- you're three versions behind. Name me a software company that will allow you to upgrade multiple apps (after all, Komplete's 11 apps) including over 50 GB of new samples and the rest for your price?

See above...

Incorrect. Motorola stopped making chips, and IBM moved their PPC processors to gaming consoles. The move had nothing to do with IBM QC; they just stopped making them available to Apple:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC

Now, you're getting more to the point- they needed to adapt. The machines they put on the market were underpowered and overpriced...

I used the same 933 MHz PIII from 2001 until 2006. While it didn't run some of the newer things very well (for obvious reasons), it was still usable. My current machine (a 4600x2 AMD with 2 GB of RAM) is far from being state of the art, yet it will handle anything I throw at it with ease...

Because once again, it was three versions behind. You had two years to upgrade to the current Komplete version before K5 came out, and then they gave you another chance. And, it was closer to 150 days- Komplete 5 came out in the beginning of November 2006.

Read the above...

They do? Show me even one thread that's been locked in this specific forum besides the ones started by the NI team itself talking about announcements and updates.

In the four years or so I've been moderating here (and I moderate six of the forums; this isn't one of mine), the only times I've shut down threads are if;
1) they're duplicate threads, or
2) they're discussing illegal software, or
3) at the thread starter's request

The other mods and the NI team for the most part follow the same guidelines...

Once again, it was for more than sixty days. And, once again, you're talking about a product that's three generations behind. Nothing's the same from Komplete 2 to Komplete 5, every single app's had at least one full version update (some two), or it's been dropped and a new app added in its place.

Read the above...

Logic you'd expect- it's an Apple product, after all. Are you going to completely alienate your user base by first of all:
1) requiring them to buy a new machine ("Aw... we were wrong. An Intel/PC style architecture is more efficient than what we've been pushing off on you. We'll be nice though; we'll only charge you 1 1/2 times the going rate (for our cheap laptops; we'll more than make it up with our premium laptops and our desktops) for a Windows box configured the same.") and then
2) charging premium prices for a Logic upgrade ("Oh, and by the way- that nice sequencer you bought from us? That won't run on the new machine...")

Oh- and let's not forget Sound Diver. I'm still on 3.0.5, which was supposed to be a beta for an upcoming Windows update. This was in 2002. You have all these Mac users with expired Mac betas (3.1.0) that are tied to their XS keys.

DP- MOTU's reliant on Mac users for their income. The two instruments that have Windows versions don't run worth s**t on a Windows box. I was a Unisyn user for a while back when I still ran a DOS based Windows box. 1.5 won't run on a NT based OS (any Windows system in the last six years), and 2 is Mac only.

Reason- the Props have always been good about upgrades, true (I've been a Reason user since v1 myself). However, you're talking one app here, and not a bundle of 11...

Peak- I can't say anything about, because I've never used anything of theirs. Once again, you're talking about a single app, though.

Read my replies in this thread again...

ew

 

Percentages charged for upgrades

NI forum response seems to always say how old my software is after only 4 years Saying that my software is so terribly old quoting the original release date of Komplete 2 (even though I purchased it in @ March of 2005) and K2 it wasn't updated to K3 until October 9th 2005 (less than 3 years)
http://aes.harmony-central.com/119AES/Content/Native_Instruments/PR/NI-Komplete-Update.html
I've listed upgrades below and the percentage of the list price vs. upgrade most software isn't bundled or divided as NI's.

Like Logic doesn't consider itself a bundle of 15-20 apps like Komplete and I think is a good comparison (all the instruments it comes with and comes with all 5 Jam packs with even more instruments and Loops.)
Motu doesn't count all the instruments and editors as individual apps.
See examples below.

You might note that they don't charge any more for software that in some cases is up to 18 years old. So the 3-4 year is so so old is really quite insulting.

NI seems to be the only company that judges you so old so quickly it's the equivalent of a Logan's Run of a software company. We've turned 30 so we should be killed.
Or maybe we just seem to be renting it from NI not really purchasing it.

Examples of reasonable upgrades

Peak even Peak 1.0 (released over 12 years ago) upgrade to the latest Peak Pro 6 and lists for 599 the upgrade is only 199.00
33 % of list price for an upgrade and has always been available without limited time only B.S. that NI does.

Motu's DP1.0 Released in 1990 now over 18 years old Latest version lists for 795.00 upgrade even for 18 year old software is 195.00
=24% of list price for an upgrade and they don't insult you saying your software is old or you waited to long or even charge you more than going from the version that was just updated.

Adobe photoshop 7.0 released 2nd quarter 2002 Over 6 years old and it's not Mac only or that "bundle" line which seems to be one of your excuses. You even get a better Adobe Creative Suite Standard Mac/PC with a list of 999.00 CS3 is Bundle also and upgrading from a single app the upgrade is only 349.00 @ 35% for the upgrade and you get a lot more than just the original photoshop and again they don't insult you saying your software is old or you waited to long or even charge you more than going from the version that was just updated.

Compare these to
1149 list for komplete 749 for an upgrade @ 67% of the list price.

Again you haven't been able to show me an example of any software company except NI that charges so much (over 65% of list price for an upgrade with a limited time purchase window) and then if you wait too long or can't afford it within a specific time considers you out of luck.

As far as I can tell as of today April 1st 2008 my 1149. investment has been rendered worthless by NI because an upgrade doesn't seem to be available because I didn't bite at the "limited time only thru March 31st. at 67 % of list price (talk about a hard sell)
3 years seems to be a lifetime to NI .
---quote---
Now, you're getting more to the point- they needed to adapt. The machines they put on the market were underpowered and overpriced...
---end quote---
In these all these years on the P1 how much time have you spent dealing with spyware addware or having to re-install all your software again vs. making music? Or like some PC musicians do you never connect to the internet ? To me that has made the mac worth what you consider overpriced. But to each his own.
You seem a little PC slanted here I'm guessing because all my Mac only apps not from NI didn't need as much processor power as NI's requirements.
I'm not a software developer my guess and it really is a guess because NI just made a Hybrid Windows/Mac version that was really just rehashed from a windows version and ported over for a Mac but did function but not fully take advantage of some of the macs abilities.


---quote ---
I used the same 933 MHz PIII from 2001 until 2006. While it didn't run some of the newer things very well (for obvious reasons), it was still usable. My current machine (a 4600x2 AMD with 2 GB of RAM) is far from being state of the art, yet it will handle anything I throw at it with ease...
---end quote---

This seems odd the Pentium III.
Was this what was recommended by NI for even Komplete 2 ? it doesn't seem to be recommended for Komplete 3 and seems like a red herring.

---quote---
Reason- the Props have always been good about upgrades, true (I've been a Reason user since v1 myself). However, you're talking one app here, and not a bundle of 11...
---end quote---
Reason a Single app ? with more and more new instruments and new sequencers etc. can also be used as plug in via rewire.doesn't seem like a single app to me just that they don't sell them all individually. Again release date 6-7 years ago and no penalties like NI to upgrade they seem to want to keep you as a customer.

Again is there now no upgrade path for K2 owners in my case after only 3 years ?

Look forward to your responses

 

But, can you buy them separately or run them in other hosts?
If you're developing things that don't have to have compatibility with other apps, it's a lot cheaper both for the developer and for the end user.

You don't own any software. What you have is a license to use it. Read any EULA...

Compatibility cross platform, with different OSes, etc.?

See above...

Want to compare Adobe's revenue and userbase with NI's sometime? There's a lot more Adobe users. The more users; the less you can charge and still make a fair and reasonable profit. Economics 101...

In the DAW world, three years is a lifetime. That's at least one new generation of hardware and the software to run on it.

Can the older stuff be run? Sure it can; I used Sonar 2.2 XL for five years; I just upgraded to v6 last year (and hence, I'm now a version behind. So be it). And, I probably wouldn't have upgraded if it weren't for the fact that some of my newer plugins wouldn't run correctly in it.

In the last six years, I've installed Windows a total of three times. And, two of those weren't reinstalls; they were installs on new machines. My current XP install is 14 months old. And, my DAW's a multipurpose machine; I'm answering you using it.

Me personally? Yes, I'm PC biased. However, I don't work for NI; most of us moderators don't. We're users like you are.

Actually, the reverse is true in a lot of instances. For example, Brian (Clevinger- the creator of Absynth) used a G4 for most of his coding until recently.

The 1.4 GHz requirement on the PC side for K2 and above was mostly for the AMD crowd; the Athlon/Duron processors under that clock speed didn't have SSE (the Windows equivalent of Altivec). The 933 PIII was a lot better machine for audio than most P4s under 2.2 GHz if the truth were to be known; the P4 architecture had some serious flaws in its design as far as audio apps go.

Komplete 3 was the reason I finally upgraded my machine (the intermediate machine here was a 3500+ Athlon64). The biggest liability with my P3 was the RAM limit with the motherboard; the chipsets used with that processor couldn't handle more than 512 MB of RAM.

And that's the point. It's a closed system- you don't have to worry about compatibility issues with other hosts. And, remember ReWire is a Propellerhead technology- they're the ones making the rules about compatibility.

ew

 

lots of excuses no answers to 2 questions

Question 1 who else charges over 75% for only an upgrade.

Question 2 Name another software company that after three years and paying them over a thousand dollars abandons you and offers no upgrade path. Forces you to pay full price.

Only NI seems to think 3 years is a lifetime and to start over unless you can tell me differently.

I don't think this business model encourages loyalty at all.

Small company justifies higher prices and no upgrade path or saying something isn't on both mac/pc seem to be distractions/excuses from the 2 questions posted above I've asked you again please show an example for the 2 questions posted above

Speaking of small companies I remember cycling 74 and pluggo released March 3, 1999 for very good price like only 74 dollars and they are still around. Still offer upgrades and support Audio Unit, VST, and RTAS plug-in formats. Version 3.5 is available for Windows XP and Mac OS X.
not the greatest plug ins but they didn't charge more just because they
were a small company. But again they still offer an upgrade path. almost 9 years later.

Daw examples

Cubase SX 3 released 2004 lists for 799.00 upgrade 4 years later upgrade path still available for only 249.00 31 % of list price.

Pro Tools 6.0 released october 2002 upgrade 199.00 no list price because it's bundled with hardware but still an upgrade path 6 years later.

Ableton Live 1.0 released October 31, 2001 upgrade path still available 7 years later for upgrade for 219 list 500.00 43% of list price 7 years later

 

Once again, with Komplete you're talking multiple apps sold as a bundle and not single apps. Out of the companies you've mentioned, the closest equivalent would be Adobe with their Creative Suite (the equivalent here would be the Master Collection though, and not the standard). What's your upgrade price there?

As for Komplete, add together the prices of all the update versions since Komplete 2 came out and the added content. You'll find it's a lot more than Komplete 5's MSRP...

ew

 

so 3 years and my software isn't upgradable on NI doesn't care

You don't mention a single software company that doesn't allow an upgrade after only 3 years.

Again you market your DAW as many apps bundled but you also mentioned daws are old after 3 years.
Seems just by then why do all the other companies still care about previous customers.

NI couldn't give a Damn about me being a previous customer and there is no upgrade path for K2 owners Is this correct ?

They don't care I spent 1,000.00 is that correct

I will keep telling every musician I know about the crappy deal I feel I've been given.
I don't care if there were a hundred apps not letting you upgrade after 3 years is total BullSh*t and I know of no other company that does this and you haven't been able to state this as well just that they are special and there is nothing to compare to NI Komplete

I hope I can persuade as many people to not buy your software until you put an expiration date saying if you don't upgrade during our limited time offers we may not ever let you upgrade again

 

Once again, it's not my DAW. I'm not a NI employee- most of us mods aren't.

And, it's not NI who made K2 obsolete- it runs fine on my Windows box (or would if I had those app versions installed). It's Apple who made it obsolete by changing their architecture. Why don't you write to Apple about wrecking compatibility instead?

ew

 

Once they have your money NI say's Buy again Full Price

So NI is the one who offers no upgrade path not Apple.

You don't seem to answer that questions I have posted again that after 3 years I cannot upgrade something I paid 1,000.00 for.

Is that correct ?

NI doesn't care about me or my investment which at this point is useless and has no return as far as an investment. I consider spending 1,000.00 an investment not just a whim that I have to start over again.

Again you quote the previous post that it's been 4 years which is misleading unless everyone purchased it the day K2 was first released.

Then you keep saying this is normal for software companies to do to their customer base. But never give another example of a Music software company that treats you this badly.

So please do state a software company that doesn't offer an upgrade path and they say 3 years is SOOOOOO long.

Who else treats you this way ?

Sounds like you drank a little to much of the NI Kool-Aid.

This seems to be going nowhere.

You haven't answered the 2 questions I have posed to you again and again and you keep telling people how they waited to long and you say this is normal for a software company. Or NI is a small company and has to charge you full price again. or I should be on a PC. but you can't name a single company that is so "depeche mode" and just blamed apple again (PC bias) 2 questions again are:


Question 1 who else charges over 75% for only an upgrade.

Question 2 Name another software company that after three years and paying them over a thousand dollars abandons you and offers no upgrade path. Forces you to pay full price or essentially says in so many words to go F yourself.

 

You don't get the point. If Apple hadn't changed their hardware model, you wouldn't have to upgrade. Komplete 2 will run on any Windows OS released in the last seven years. Why isn't it the same for a Mac?

After that April cutoff date, NI extended the Komplete 2 upgrade at a higher price. It was posted here in the forum, in the Komplete information pages and in the shop. They also said that this was probably the final upgrade deal.

While I might not agree with their thinking there, I can't say that they didn't give prior notification. That's their choice, after all.

How is it misleading? That's how long it's been since K2 was released, correct?

I can think of quite a few companies that went under and didn't even give you that option. Remember Bitheadz? I had a couple of their products (I really liked Retro-AS1). They didn't work on XP, so when I went to XP, I was stuck. After three years of promised upgrades, they came out with a new Windows version that:
1) was more expensive to upgrade than the original cost was, and
2) was buggy as all get out on a Windows machine.

They folded up shop a few months later, leaving both Mac and Windows users without a usable instrument; they used challenge/response. If you reinstalled or bought a new machine, you were hosed.

Or, to use one of your favorites- MOTU. As I mentioned earlier, I had Unisyn. They originally said that the 2.0 release was going to be NTFS compatible. Wrong. I'm stuck with a piece of software that;
1) I can't use, and;
2) I can't sell, because the installer's Windows specific, and there hasn't been a Windows OS in seven years that'll run the thing. I'm thinking it also might be against the EULA; I'll have to find my manual for it sometime.

While I'll admit there's a price differential here, you can at least upgrade to something that will work. And, you can sell your license and recover some of the cash; it's cross-platform after all.

I could say the same about you and the Cupertino Kool-Aid...

Agreed...

Apple. You've been paying for point upgrades since OSX was released (I see the Leopard upgrade is $129 in the Apple shop). How much have you paid for OS upgrades since you started with OSX?

I've bought two XP licenses in the last seven years- that's an OS each for two machines. Sum total- $200.

ew

 

vaporware vs. no upgrade path

Quote: How is it misleading? That's how long it's been since K2 was released, correct?
It's very misleading because it's your reply to anyone wondering why they can't use K2 on an intel or even get an upgrade.
You make them feel bad by quoting the longest time that could have expired. There is a difference of 19 months (almost two years) unless as you assume when you tell people how old there software is that everyone purchased it on the very first day of release.

NI Komplete Bundle Version 2 Announced. March 31, 2004
NI Komplete Bundle Version 3 October 9, 2005


Quote:After that April cutoff date, NI extended the Komplete 2 upgrade at a higher price. It was posted here in the forum, in the Komplete information pages and in the shop. They also said that this was probably the final upgrade deal.

I don't know about you but a 4 month opportunity and a vague threat that the software you have paid over 1,000.00 for will be not upgradable in only 18 months Hard Sell again. The vague threat of no upgrades I never recall being said unless it was buried deep in the forums and gets lost with all the limited time only pressures.I'm a musician sometimes 400.00 dollars in only a 4 month period is a lot of cash to me . Maybe I could have chose not to eat. and at 800 dollars after only that 4 month period I guess I could have chose to not pay rent.

Quote:I can think of quite a few companies that went under and didn't even give you that option. Remember Bitheadz? I had a couple of their products (I really liked Retro-AS1). They didn't work on XP, so when I went to XP, I was stuck. After three years of promised upgrades, they came out with a new Windows version that:
1) was more expensive to upgrade than the original cost was, and
2) was buggy as all get out on a Windows machine.

I'm not familiar with XP and wouldn't have a clue whether it was the OS or the software manufacturer that was so buggy. I heard of a lot of problems with XP and audio and many other problems when XP was new. And 4 years of waiting for a promised upgrade seems more like verging on "vaporware" than to not allow an upgrade path at all. You also state upgrades were ridiculously priced (Hmmm sounds like NI's business model.)but at least they offered them but the original price was 259.00 about a 900.00 difference to K5's 1149.00 list price and they went out of business.

Quote:MOTU. As I mentioned earlier, I had Unisyn. They originally said that the 2.0 release was going to be NTFS compatible. Wrong. I'm stuck with a piece of software that;
1) I can't use, and;
2) I can't sell, because the installer's Windows specific, and there hasn't been a Windows OS in seven years that'll run the thing. I'm thinking it also might be against the EULA; I'll have to find my manual for it sometime.
While I'll admit there's a price differential here, you can at least upgrade to something that will work. And, you can sell your license and recover some of the cash; it's cross-platform after all.

Don't you think that the lack of support or demise of this software is almost directly tied to products like the Komplete line and all the other softsynth plug-ins ? Where your patches are stored right within the DAW software I don't know many people lugging around prophet 5's and DX7's and needing a Patch editor anymore because most DAW's keep all that for you.

Quote:Apple. You've been paying for point upgrades since OSX was released (I see the Leopard upgrade is $129 in the Apple shop). How much have you paid for OS upgrades since you started with OSX?

I sell my previous machine and I purchase a new machine almost every year or 18 months mostly because it's necessary to run the latest versions of softsynths fluidly or what systems are recommended because the software manufacturers themselves almost demand it.
So total cost for my Mac OS upgrades $ 0.00 nada. Again sensing a PC type bias here.

Again I ask this question again
What software company doesn't offer on upgrade path after only three years and costs 1149.00. ?

Please don't use the excuse that they are bundled and sold separately again. If you split up MOTU DP or Logic they are comparable and I don't really care about the plug in factor when you can just export tracks from daw to daw and please don't list vaporware or in the case of bitheadz if they didn't work why didn't you try and get your money back directly from the software manufacturer ? or if purchased with a credit card why didn't you contest the charge stating that it didn't work
or please don't continue listing companies that go out of business or software like patch editors that have been rolled into the daw's since they were introduced in 1999.

Again I feel like we are getting nowhere NI doesn't care about any of the money I feel I invested in their software and despite all the other people reading this thread only one other person has responded.
Isn't any one else pissed off ?
I've spent what to me was a alot of money and never seen a company upgrade so quickly and charge so much .So I must be just a poor musician who missed the 4 month window of a decently priced upgrade. Now NI must be too upscale for my budget. But again I think there's a lot more software companies that care about their customer base and have adjusted their prices and offer upgrades 7 to 9 years later and not throw you to the curb after only 3 years.

Again am I the only one who feels this way? or have you already lost the majority of K2 owners already who missed the 4 month deal ?

Wish you the best and hope you create beautiful music and I hope others can continue with the constant high priced and limited time "hard sell" upgrades. Don't forget to check in every quarter or don't
have the same cash flow problems I found myself in and find themselves SOL with no upgrade path after only 3 years.

I personally will continue to tell every musician I know that in my opinion NI the has nice music creation software but I've never encountered or heard of another company charges so much or treated me so badly and discarded me so quickly.

 

Oh my...

I did what?

No- I was saying how long Komplete 2 had been out. Any other interpretation is yours...

I seem to remember it being stickied in the Komplete and bundles forum at that time (this of course was before the latest forum revamp). I don't know how it could be made any clearer...

By the time Bitheadz made their XP version available, XP was on SP2. And, most of the issues with XP and audio in the beginning were driver related and not software.

I know a lot of people who still use hardware; go out to any club. You'll still find more gigging musicians using hardware than software

And, in my case, I have some hardware that either can't be duplicated in software to the extent I'd like (my original Microwave with 2.0 software's an example of that), can't be duplicated because of content copyright (most any ROMpler fits here) or is just easier to use because of long time experience (my Matrix-6 fits that description; I've had at least one Matrix in my rig for the last seventeen years, and getting what I want out of it's automatic by now).

Hold on for a second... let's go back. Weren't you questioning my four years/obsolescence statement? Yet, you're buying a new computer every year to 18 months because your old one won't run the new programs?

And, here you can afford a new computer every year, but you make statements like this (and I quote from this post:

Isn't that a little contradictory?

I'd owned the original app for three years; credit card laws wouldn't apply after that time. And, under US bankruptcy law, the only obligation they have is to their creditors and not their customers. Also, to the best of my knowledge, there isn't a EULA out there that would provide that kind of protection to the licensee if the company goes under.

Once again, there was a window until March 2007 (including previous versions). From 2004 to 2007.

Most of them had already upgraded.

Your choice. However, point them to this thread and let them make their own decisions...

ew

 

Please Name a Software company after 3 years offers no upgrade & still in business ?

Quote:
Hold on for a second... let's go back. Weren't you questioning my four years/obsolescence statement? Yet, you're buying a new computer every year to 18 months because your old one won't run the new programs?

No just following the software manufacturers recommended systems.
Not the bottom end of requirements to run the apps. I don't have to upgrade the hardware but I do want to run all the apps and smoothly.

Also you seemed to me to be quoting software/DAWS not hardware explaining how after 3 years "a lifetime" we didn't deserve an upgrade

Quote: In the DAW world, three years is a lifetime. That's at least one new generation of hardware and the software to run on it.

But that seems contradicts what you say you can still "run" on a PC.

Quote: I used the same 933 MHz PIII from 2001 until 2006. While it didn't run some of the newer things very well (for obvious reasons), it was still usable. My current machine (a 4600x2 AMD with 2 GB of RAM) is far from being state of the art, yet it will handle anything I throw at it with ease...

Yet you can't point to any other software company within 3 years offers you no upgrade path.
3 years is a lifetime for software daws ?

I guess that's in NI years which must be something like dog years.
1 year = 7 years. Because I have stated many other software companies that still offer you reasonable upgrades 7-9 years later. And you haven't stated one company with 3 years still in business or buy at a full price policy have you ?

Quote:And, here you can afford a new computer every year, but you make statements like this (and I quote from this postI'm a musician sometimes 400.00 dollars in only a 4 month period is a lot of cash to me . Maybe I could have chose not to eat. and at 800 dollars after only that 4 month period I guess I could have chose to not pay rent.
Isn't that a little contradictory?
)

NI considered and made my 1,000.00 investment obsolescent in 3 years and then you say it was posted in a different forum and how could that be more clear. For me personally I only look thru the forums when I can't find a solution under FAQ's I'm busy trying to make music. To me that's pretty buried and not "clear" and not to up front. Who else would treat their client base buy saying your software is 4 months old and you better buy the upgrade or it might not be available ? That's a short shelf life.

As far as being contradictory I don't collect Macs I sell my current one and I lose maybe 100 or 200 dollars (because macs do retain their value) I am not pressured by NI with a limited time only crap and can wait till a time that I'm able to afford to do this at 100-200 bucks not a 4 month period for 25% of list price of the full version so quickly or if you blinked your eyes and missed it went to @ 800.00 dollars when NI will jacked it up to 75% of list price and never went down in price after that. Once again, there was a window until March 2007 (including previous versions). From 2004 to 2007. But at only @ 800 bucks I felt like a 2nd class citizen when absolutely every other upgrade was 1/2 price except K2 owners.

You still can't mention another software company that charges this much so quickly can you ?
But state this is normal practice. @ 800.00 is different than a couple hundred bucks and new hardware/software OS.

Quote:I'd owned the original app for three years; credit card laws wouldn't apply after that time. And, under US bankruptcy law, the only obligation they have is to their creditors and not their customers. Also, to the best of my knowledge, there isn't a EULA out there that would provide that kind of protection to the licensee if the company goes under.

Weren't we talking about upgrades and percentages charged by companies and not offering upgrades vs. original purchase dates ? Most companies if you call them directly whithin the first few weeks or first month or so when you found it so buggy would have refunded your upgrade wouldn't they ? Or you could have contested the upgrade within a single C/C billing cycle no ?



Quote: Most of them had already upgraded.

Is most is above 50 % ?

I find that difficult looking at how many threads there were and how many people during these years were not happy. And had to buy full previous versions a version behind at a discount to get it at a the upgrades from NI at reasonable price because they weren't offered at a reasonable price to K2 owners.

And still people still ask Why no upgrade path so quickly ?
and why are the upgrades so close together and always the Hard sell limited time offers ?

Sounds desperate and greedy.

Still waiting for you to show an example (not of vaporware or someone who's gone out of business) that pulls an upgrade path so quickly ?
But I'm not holding my breath because I think NI holds that distinction
to themselves alone.

This seems to go nowhere when you can't answer the question

So long wish you well an have fun creating music and maybe NI will change their business model or show some compassion to some of the K2 owners but again it's been years.

Aloha
RD

 

You know- you're really beginning to irritate me with your taking my statements out of context...

Where did I say that? I'd said that you had three years to upgrade. I said nothing about deserving anything, did I?

And as for running the new apps, who says you have to upgrade those to begin with if you're happy with what you have? You can't have it both ways...

Where's the contradiction? My machine is a generation behind- it's dual core instead of quad, it uses DDR2 667 RAM instead of DDR3 1333- the list goes on. My two main hosts (Sonar and Live) are a version ahead of what I have.

Does it mean I can't use what I have and make music? Absolutely not. Did using my old PIII for all those years mean I couldn't make music? Absolutely not- I just bounced to audio early.

Then again, we didn't have a fundamental hardware change requiring our plugins to be revised (and in some cases rewritten from the ground up) to run on the newer machines. And, we didn't have point upgrades breaking compatibility.

How about the developers who still don't have working UB versions of their plugins, or say they won't develop for UB?

Once again, you had three years to upgrade. With all the noise going on about UB from everywhere in the industry, I'd think you'd be watching for compatibility news- I know I was, and I'm not even a Mac user...

It was $300 until March 2007. As for old Macs holding their value, I think this says more about the Mac community instead of the value of the machine. After all, why did Apple switch to Intel? To get a machine that could keep up with PCs. And, your cross-platform apps for the most part will still run better via bootcamp and XP than they will as a native OSX app- try it for yourself. Go ahead- I'm waiting...

When I originally bought the apps in question, I was running ME; it was before XP was released. They ran fine there. It's only after I upgraded to XP that the issues came about- as I had stated. Why did I update? Because ME was an unusable OS for my purposes, but it's what new PCs shipped with for the most part (this was before I started building my machines myself).

It was the last time I looked. It's in the definition, after all...

You saw posts and threads from maybe 35 preople. Do you really believe that NI only sold 70 K2 licenses?

It seems to go nowhere when you misquote and pull things out of context- true

ew

 

Name any other software company That within 3 years offers you no upgrade

Can you answer this question without talking about vaporware etc. Or waiting on UB compatibility you might have to wait but I know of no other company that abandons you so quickly.

You still can't name a single company that leaves you high and dry after only 3 years can you ?

I'm asking who drops it's customers and offers no upgrade path after 3 years and is still in business.

This is not normal software business practice except for NI.

 

The only good there is to say is that the NI moderator is trying hard to explain this to us users. But nevertheless they treat older Komplete owners like sh**. I own Komplete 3 (just 2 years old) and I shall either pay 400 Euros now or 700 later. Unbelievabale. They even discontinued several things...I think I'll turn my back on NI unless they treat their former loyal and BEST customers in a different way...