Komplete Kontrol and Vienna Ensemble Pro

I am interested in Komplete Kontrol and particularly the Light Guide feature.

Currently I have 2 slave computers that host the majority of my VIs via a software called Vienna Ensemble Pro. This is a MIDI and Audio over LAN that allows you to access VIs via a server plugiin inserted into the DAW on the host computer.

Currently I load Kontakt into a VST plugin slot inside Vienna Ensemble Pro on the slave machine then connect to it via the host computer.

Theoretically I could load Komplete Kontrol software inside Vienna Ensemble Pro then load Kontakt inside that, so:

1. Could I load Vienna Ensemble Pro > Komplete Kontrol > Kontakt?
2. If I connect to it via the Vienna Ensemble Pro server plugin inside the DAW on the host computer, will the keyboard pick up the controls and light guide etc from the slave?

Does anyone here own VEP and KK and use a slave that could verify?

 

I don't own VEP but I have the standard VE. Obviously I'm not using it over LAN but I'll try hosting KK inside VE and see if the light guide works. My logic tells me it will work, and if it does on a local machine I don't see a reason why it wouldn't work on VEP over LAN.

I can test tonight and report back. In about 9 hours.

 

That would be very useful, not sure how accurate it would be as the Pro version uses a server plugin as the component you insert into a DAW and the VE standalone software host the plugins. So there is an extra layer I think.

 

Also can anyone tell me, if you have a DAW project with some tracks using KK and some not, does the keyboard automatically switch mode or do you have to switch it manually into MIDI mode (like in Maschine)?

Reason I ask is if it cannot work with VEP, then I would need to work in both modes I guess and the method to switch if like Maschine is two buttons. Pity if so they could not have made it auto sense like AutoMap.

Also anyone managed to get KK working with VEP?

 

I wonder if you could load the VEP server plugin inside the Komplete Kontrol plugin and then load Kontakt inside VEP? Would the keyboard still recognise Kontakt?

 

Can atone tell me, if you are using KK in a DAW template and have created tracks with KK to Kontakt and loaded 3rd party VIs:

1. Is there an easy way to achieve this without them having NKS support?

2. What does NKS support add other than pre mapped controls, the ability to load from the Factory library with a nice graphic and tagging?

3. Will these get saved into the template so you can just load it up and use them with full functionality without having to go through the KK browser to reload the patches?

 

It's frustrating that I can't find an answer to this same question in any forum, anywhere. I'm in the same boat, only I mostly use VEP on the same computer as my DAW (Pro Tools). I'd really like to use the Light Guide, as my orchestral libraries utilize heavy-duty keyswitching, and figuring out where it is on a given instrument varies considerably. I've seen that Junkie XL/Tom has one now in his studio, and I know he's a big VEP (slave) user. C'mon NI, help us out with the information!

 

Well I have both and have tried various ways:

1. Hosting Komplete Kontrol inside VEP.
2. Hosting VEP inside Komplete Kontrol with Kontakt in that.
3. Hosting VEP inside Komplete Kontrol with Komplete Kontrol also hosted in VEP.

Even on the same Mac, no joy. I can play the sounds of Komplete Kontrol from my DAW if they are hosted using option 1, but the keyboard thinks its just a standard midi track so the lightguide or knobs do not display KK stuff. If I switch focus the the VEP server on the computer outside the DAW it comes alive and if I switch back into the DAW stays that way, but I do not think the controls will work inside the DAW I just think it gets stuck.

More worryingly for me with a large orchestral template having to load KK plugins many times adds to the load time as they take a few seconds more than a straight Kontakt plugin to load and multiplying that across many tracks means my template takes about 6-7 minutes to load.

Now that is not too bad, but switching projects is a pain as VEP has to disconnect first which takes time then the KK plugins have to load back up.

Its a pity they could not have found a way to have multis in KK.

 

Okay some interesting news. So I was playing around with this again tonight, thinking if there was some other way. I wondered if using the "experimental" midi port feature in VEP 6 might be the answer. Turns out not.

So I hooked up it again in Logic Pro X this way:

1. Opened up the VEP server application on my main DAW computer (Mac) basically connecting to VEP locally rather than on a slave computer for purposes of testing.

2. Added an instance of Komplete Kontrol inside the VEP server rack and within that a Komplete Kontrol instrument.

3. Saved this as a server project.

4. In Logic added a VEP Server plugin and connected to this project (as usual method).

Now as I observed the other day, I can play the sounds of Komplete Kontrol from my DAW, but the keyboard thinks its just a standard midi track so the lightguide or knobs do not display.

As I said if I switch focus the the VEP server on the computer outside the DAW it comes alive and if I switch back into the DAW stays that way, but when I change track to a non KK instance in Logic it switches into Midi Mode and will not go back when focus is switched back to the VEP/KK track.

So I went back into the VEP server rack and out of curiosity clicked the keyboard symbol in the KK window and sure enough the keyboard sprang back into KK mode. I then remembered that there was a key routine on the hardware to do the same thing.

So back in Logic, I used the up/down arrows to select the non KK track to force the loss of KK display, then hit Shift and Instance keys on the KK keyboard (Shift is top left and Instance is near the Browse button). Guess what it works!

So basically hosting KK inside a VEP server WILL work, but to get focus you have to press Shift/Instance. Maybe there is a better way to fix this but it seems that KK cannot update track focus when hosted inside VEP it just needs some help.

Now what I have not tested is whether this also works on a slave computer as I have not installed KK software on it as there was no point before. Also personally not sure I ever will as my slaves are maxed out as it is hosting Play and non KK Kontakt libraries. But I can see myself using this method on VIs using KK that are currently saved inside my DAW as loading them separately has its benefits switching projects/optimising CPU performance.

 

Unfortunate that it requires such a work-around. I was hoping that Kontakt 6 would be out with Komplete 11 and would somehow be more... robust in this respect. Seems like a technology that wasn't ready for primetime when released, but had to be released to start developing support. I guess I'll keep waiting.

One good thing I've heard tho is that VEP 6 can keep a server rack open when you shut down your DAW or change sessions. This would make switching between template-only sessions much easier. Haven't made that jump yet, but maybe when it's a little more established as well.

 

I just created a server instance of VEP6 and created 8 instances of Komplete Kontrol and triggered them from my DAW (Digital Performer) and it works perfectly from within my DAW. Within each instance of KK I opened an orchestral sound from the Orchestral Essentials series in Complete 11. The lights all function properly for key switches and instrument range, as does the browse function on my keyboard (S88). I'm happy.

 

I think I spoke too soon.

If I switch instances in my DAW Logic Pro X, the keyboard does not auto focus on a track hosted via VEP. I have to switch to VEP and press the little keyboard icon. Then when I switch back to the daw its still active. But as soon as I change tracks then back again focus is lost.

So some way of transmitting focus between VEP and KK is needed?

Has anyone found a way to do this so that the DAW updates the keyboard like it does when the KK plugin is hosted directly inside the DAW?

 

Has anyone considered using the Controller Editor to create a VSL template to control VE instruments in VEP? The Controller Editor has buttons/knobs that can send any series of CC to an instance of VE.

 

It would be helpful if you could elaborate on how you got this to work.

Are you running any other instances in your project not hosted in VEP? I found that the keyboard did not recognise instances properly if there were KK plugins inside the DAW and via VEP. Also I just could not get the keyboard to update without going into the VEP server and reconnecting the keyboard.