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Komplete Kontrol plugin VERY slow to load

Discussion in 'KOMPLETE KONTROL SERIES' started by daounandout, Jul 16, 2018.

  1. metrosuperstar

    metrosuperstar NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    86
    i can say that just using the Standalone version, I went from having a super fast/efficient KK to having one that is super 1990s kinda slow after adding all my user libraries... why I dont know... they're not actually being loaded so I'm not sure why this would slow it down like this. Top end Windows 10 pc 2019, custom build.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2020
  2. davemacp

    davemacp NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    395
    I'm firmly in the way too slow to load up camp. Im on a 2013 mac pro, mojave, and kk takes 30-40 secs to becomes useable in standalone and in logic. Also, every time I open a new instance, it makes my cpu go crazy and logic sometimes craps out. Amazing.
     
  3. adriaantaylor

    adriaantaylor New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Yeah this is weird.. not like it used to be.... THis needs to be looked at!
     
  4. daisykutter

    daisykutter NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    4
    I am experiencing this issue as well, both on Komplete Kontrol and Maschine. It renders the product practically unusable when it takes over a minute every time you add a new instance of the plugin. Komplete Kontrol was supposed to be all about work flow. This issue absolutely KILLS work flow. I ran some tests using a stopwatch and wanted to post the results. This affects load times of saved projects as well, compounded by the number of instances of Komplete Kontrol and/or Maschine in the project. 2 minutes and 30 seconds to load a project with 5 empty plugins from SSD is simply unacceptable. I really hope they fix this soon or provide some guidance of the underlying issue.

    macOS High Sierra v10.13.6
    3.49 GHz Intel Core i7 Quad
    16 GB RAM
    1 TB Samsung EVO SSD (boot drive + plugins/libraries)
    KOMPLETE 12 ULTIMATE Collectors Edition

    Komplete Kontrol v2.3.0 (R177)
    Stand Alone
    44.66 Waiting for product Scan
    19.33 Initializing GUI
    63:99 Total Load Time

    Maschine v2.92 (R1)
    Stand Alone
    45.44 Waiting for product scan
    20.50 Initializing GUI
    65:94Total Load Time

    Komplete Kontrol v2.3.0 (R177)
    VST in Ableton Live 10.1.9
    46.11 Spinning progress until loaded

    Maschine v2.92 (R1)
    VST in Ableton Live 10.1.9
    46.50 Spinning progress until loaded

    Loading new blank Ableton Live template set
    0 Instances of Komplete Kontrol VST
    02.68 Total time to load

    Loading Saved Ableton Live set
    1 Instance of Komplete Kontrol VST (empty)
    43.72 Total time to load

    Loading Saved Ableton Live set
    2 Instances of Komplete Kontrol (empty)
    01:02.44 Total time to load

    Loading Saved Ableton Live set
    4 Instances of Komplete Kontrol VST (empty)
    1 Instance of Maschine VST (empty)
    02:30.58 Total time to load
     
  5. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    420
    This problem has gotten so bad that I've stopped using the Komplete Kontrol plugin and gone back to just loading plugins directly. Although I can't control the parameters with the knobs on my S49, I find this less of an inconvenience than having to wait 15–20 seconds every time I load Komplete Kontrol. I think in my case it's because it has indexed my entire library of samples (I have almost all the Maschine expansions installed). I never use the plugin to load sounds directly (I only load other plugins), so the giant list of samples is useless to me, but unfortunately there's no way to disable that feature.

    Going to have to contact support about this, because this has rendered the product unusable for me. I'm not going to uninstall all my Maschine expansions, as I use them with Maschine. I just want them to not appear in the Komplete Kontrol plugin. This needs to be fixed ASAP.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    420
    Just contacted support. This situation has become completely intolerable.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    420
    I am now almost certain this is caused by having too many Maschine expansions installed. Those are the only products that show up in the Loops and One-shots tabs in Komplete Kontrol. I have pretty much all of the expansions, and my database is nearly 200 MB (and my Maschine database is the same size). I think the startup time could certainly be much better optimized, which would help Maschine start up faster, but the fact is I don't want ANY of that stuff in Komplete Kontrol in the first place. At least for me, the ONLY purpose of Komplete Kontrol is to allow my keyboard to browse and control plugins. I never have and never will load samples with it. If I was going to, I would load Battery or Kontakt or something first, then load the samples into that.

    Komplete Kontrol badly needs an option to disable indexing loops and one-shots.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    420
    Update: I tested this on a fresh install of macOS on the same machine. With no Maschine expansions installed, Komplete Kontrol loads in about one second (instead of over 20 seconds), and Maschine loads in just a few seconds (instead of around 30–40).

    For now, my advice is to only install a few Maschine expansions, even if you own almost all of them like I do. This isn’t a great solution, but it will have to do until NI figures out how to avoid the huge performance penalty of having tons of expansions installed.

    To be clear, this is not the issue where Maschine or Komplete Kontrol scans all your plugins and samples every time (that’s a different problem which has a real solution). This is just the effect of having a lot of expansions installed, which makes the database (of presets and samples) pretty big, and Maschine/KK are not optimized to deal with it. Don’t know if this is the actual explanation, but it feels like each instance of Maschine or KK loads its own copy of the database, instead sharing it across all instances through a single background process.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  9. JesterMgee

    JesterMgee NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,752
    Hmmm. So the issue seems to be related to the number of Loops/Samples you have?

    It's not a db size issue. SQL is pretty efficient at queries if the db is well designed and in my case, my db is 530MB and that is purely only NKS files as I don't add my samples or loops to KK and don't have any Maschine Expansions at all.

    It could be some kind of underlying scan checking for valid paths or changed files or something that doesn't have a disable option. Maybe it is some kind of process that only applies to the expansions like a license check or something.
     
  10. Goon

    Goon NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    787
    I have most of the expansions installed and I do not encounter any slowness in loading at all. Personally I think you have some erroneous files within your folders that KK is trying to scan and cannot. As Jester says possibly a background license check too. Output's Arcade does this sometimes.
     
  11. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    420
    I could be wrong that the number of installed expansions was the reason for Maschine / KK loading slowly, but if that’s not the issue, I don’t know what it could be. It’s not scanning or anything (I know what it looks like when it’s scanning — the splash screen says it’s scanning, and the ScanApp process appears in the macOS Dock)…it just took forever to load when I had all the expansions installed, and now that I have no expansions installed it’s fast. It has gotten a little slower to load after installing all my NI and third-party plugins, but it’s still pretty quick. So far I’ve only installed the Maschine 2 Factory Library.

    The reason I suspect Maschine expansions is the Loops and One Shots browsers in Maschine and Komplete Kontrol only contain samples from those expansions, and once you install all the expansions those lists contain thousands and thousands of items. Third party plugins only add presets.

    It’s possible I had some other obscure issue that got sorted out when I upgraded to Catalina (or even just because I did the upgrade as a clean install). I guess I’ll find out after I install a few expansions. Going to just install a few at a time and see how it goes.
     
  12. Goon

    Goon NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    787
    I still think you may have a strange file or 2 in the folders that KK/Maschine is trying to scan, which would cause the slowness.
     
  13. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    420
    Who knows. In any case, it’s opening pretty quickly now. I’ll try installing a few expansions tomorrow and see if it slows down again.
     
  14. rhodez

    rhodez New Member

    Messages:
    2
    I really wished Komplete Kontrol 2.4 with background loading feature would fix this but not. Ver 2.4 plugins are as as slow as before. The standalone may be a bit faster but the vst/au loading is much more important. Please NI, let us get rid of any libraries we don't want indexed, especially Maschine Expansions (ALL LOOPS AND ONE SHOTS which are useless in Komplete Kontrol) and just slow up the start up. I originally bought KK to make music fast but today I never use it anymore because of the 25sec start up time.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    420
    Forgot to come back and update this. Reinstalling all the expansions made it slow again, but I didn’t buy all those expansions to not use them. Hoping NI figures out how to improve performance at some point.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. metrosuperstar

    metrosuperstar NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    86
    Over here it's become unbearingly slow. After launching the program, I have time to go pee and when I come back it's still not done "background loading" all libraries/expansions - I thought this was supposed to have been improved in 2.4?
     
  17. MyStudioOne

    MyStudioOne NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    155
    You have hit the nail right on the head re" "workaround" as I understand this issue and the workaround is of course provided by NI. If I understand correctly, Mac deals with audio in a completely different native format from what you find on a windows PC and Windows is the native format of the NI ecosystem. So NI created a software bridge so that Macs can use NI software and this "conversion" while loading process is what is creating the huge bottleneck and killing performance.
     
  18. metrosuperstar

    metrosuperstar NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    86
    I'm on Windows.... so the bottleneck exists there too.
     
  19. dmuckala@mac.com

    dmuckala@mac.com NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    14
    I posted about this in another thread but the basic problem as far as i have experienced is indeed related to expansions. I batch re-saved all of my Kontakt related libraries to separate samples (mostly the 3rd party ones that use lots of references to individual samples as opposed to .nkx files which don't seem to be causing a huge problem) and KK has been lightning fast (at least compared to beforehand). The problem is when KK is indexing SAMPLES, which is basically what you're doing when you add Maschine expansions back into the mix. What they need to do is add a 'disable indexing samples' option, similar to what they do with Kontakt's own database functions: upload_2020-10-3_14-40-26.png
    Haven't found a way to install maschine expansions without KK seeing them as well but if I do I'll let you know!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    420
    None of this is true.