Kontakt bug since 2008 - PLEASE HELP!!

NI has stonewalled me for 6 years and will not acknowledge a serious bug, and support tickets have produced ridiculous unrelated responses from the technicians, even after I have emailed them screen movies with audio blatantly demonstrating the problem. Kontakt users, please back me up on this and lets get this fixed!

The effect called "cabinet" can be used as a GROUP insert or an INSTRUMENT insert. When used as an INSTRUMENT insert, it works fine. When used as a GROUP insert, IT DESTROYS THE SOUND by drastically slowing the attack of the note, making percussive sounds like a plucked guitar or piano sound like they are being faded in with a volume pedal. The cabinet FX used on a group is useless! This is especially infuriating when trying to use a Leslie cabinet on an organ group. Can't be done as a GROUP insert!

TRY IT FOR YOURSELVES! Load Nylon Guitar.nki from the stock Kontakt library. Bypass the Convolution reverb in the Instrument Send FX so you can hear more clearly. Now, Add the cabinet effect of your choice into the Instrument insert area. It will of course alter the sound, but it will behave as it should, simulating the Nylon guitar through a physical cabinet. Now, bypass that cabinet effect, and this time put the same cabinet effect in the Group Insert FX area. NOW HOW DOES IT SOUND? The attack of the note has been ruined! It sounds nothing like the cabinet that was inserted in the INSTRUMENT FX. It should sound identical. THE CABINET EFFECT WHEN USED AS A GROUP INSERT DESTROYS THE ATTACK OF THE GROUP, RENDERING IT USELESS.

Why is this so hard to get NI to verify? Why is this taking forever to resolve? I am still getting the runaround. Even a validation from a fellow is a start.
Thanks for listening.

 

You're right. I will file a bug report too. This is not unusual for NI though, so don't hold your breath.

 

THANK YOU FOR VALIDATING THIS! Other than the forum and calling tech support, how do you officially file a "bug report"?

 

See above > support > contact support > technical support form > bug report

 

Thanks so much! Additional validation and responses from other users would be appreciated to get some momentum. You may not use this feature, but this is also about NI's lack of response.

 

THANK YOU!!!!

That Im not the only one who repeats over and over bugs and other issues of Kontakt&other devices since years!

I tell you something: They dont listen to us! They dont read the forum.

The support is supreme if you write them an email, but the bug reports in this forum are ignored for sure!
Because I also reported many useful stuff and it is not changed, not even one! (as example the bug with zone envelopes which DONT follow the loops. the value should stay in the zone where the loop is, it is reported since 3 years over and over again!)

The stuff with suggestions, ok... but bugs should be fixed fast!

 

I have reported the bug, and I will KEEP reporting the bug until they listen. I may even look for a mailing address and someone who is an executive at NI and write a letter!!!

 

The developers don't check and/or respond to what happens on the forum. Bugs can exist for that long though.

 

Response from support: "it seems to be by design. It depends on how high the velocity is, e.g how hard you hit the keyboard and the parameters "size" and "air". Of course the Cabinet Model has an influence as well."I asked: do you mean it's on purpose? No reply yet.

 

That is along the lines of the ridiculous and evasive responses I have gotten. Running an instrument through a cabinet is NOT supposed to have a negative ( or any ) effect on the attack portion of the note. Support needs to have a MUSICIAN look into this!

 

I have explained where the differences lie between group fx and insert/bus fx. When you're using group fx, the "instrument" is not routed through it, it's the individual notes of polyphony that are.

So just use instrument busses as I suggested, since that works just fine (and it's actually the way one is supposed to use the Cabinet effect).

If NI says it's by design, then that's how it is and chances to see it changed are virtually 0%. So you have to live with it. Thankfully there's a workaround.

 

I greatly appreciate your workaround, but for the sake of discussion... as a keyboard player for 40 years, and studying synths since the 70's I have never heard the phrase "individual notes of polyphony". Please explain. Also, why then does every other group fx, that is also offered as an instrument fx, work exactly as expected in both instances, and ONLY the cabinet effect when placed on a group destroys the first part of the notes? I get it that NI won't do anything about this, but there is a lack of understanding on their side. This can't be by design because the cabinet fx for a group is useless and destructive.

 

No offense, but the company that programmed B4 and B4 2 probably knows what a cabinet effect is. If the developers say to use it one way and not the other, and that its not intended for the other use, then I'd suggest using it the way that works. And honestly, if thats the first workaround for something you've ever had to do in a lifetime of making music with computers then consider yourself very lucky!

 

In this case it means that softsamplers can process sound effects on individual note (sample trigger) basis. Group FX in Kontakt are not really Group FX, they are note FX that are assigned to groups of samples.I fail to see why the cab effect takes away the attack though. I hope you can build an instrument the way you want it with Bus FX.

 

Thanks to all for your inputs. I have had to do many workarounds in my day, and this certainly is not a deal breaker for Kontakt which is a fabulous program. I have been making my situation with the cabinet fx work, but in an awkward manner for quite sometime. My frustration has been with NI writing replies to me that clearly show they did not take the time to replicate the problem per examples that I gave, and they respond with almost "gibberish" talking about unrelated issues, almost dodging me. It was not NI that suggested another way to use the cabinet FX, but a forum member, so wanted to clear that up. NI maintains that there is no bug, and nothing is wrong in the first place. Nonsense, the attack of the notes are taken away. So easy to hear and demonstrate, so obvious. That is my beef, and thanks again everyone.

 

Tested with a snare sound (just 1 sample) it works as expected and i have modulation and other fx in the whole instrument chain. This is what "by desing" means. It's related to how the instrument is build.

 

Nope, sorry. Just did the same thing. Used a snare sample. The entire front attack ( the drum stick hitting the snare) is missing and it sounds like someone blowing on a paper bag. This time I am supplying a link to some audio, so you skeptics can hear this destruction. This is the nylon guitar sample mentioned in my original post. There are 3 pairs of notes. The first pair has no effect. The second is the cabinet effect used as an instrument insert, which behaves as it should. The 3rd pair of notes is using the cabinet effect as a GROUP INSERT. This was a "picked" guitar note. What happened to the "pick" on the last pair of notes? ITS GONE! It sounds like its being played by a thumb or using a volume pedal. The attack of the note has been damaged. You should try playing a musical passage with this... it sounds ridiculous. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/82781963/Guitar- cabinet.aif

 

Paper bag, lol.

Just tested with a piano sample, attack is soft, like a short fade-in. Can't make this sound like the Amp in Instrument FX

 

THANK YOU FOR VALIDATING ME!! There will be a soft attack on ANY sample tested in this manner. THIS IS A BUG NI!

 

Writing in all caps still won't make NI change their mind. There are probably some reasons why things work as they work now, and changing that might open a whole new can of worms, which is of course not what anybody wants. So things will stay as they are.

You have a perfectly valid and functional workaround (and I'm inclined to say, the proper way to use the Cabinet effect), so use it and carry on happily with your life.