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KONTAKT WITH HYPERION STRINGS ELEMENTS

Discussion in 'KONTAKT' started by Victor Kennedy, Oct 3, 2019.

  1. Victor Kennedy

    Victor Kennedy NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    59
    I have Soundiron Hyperion Strings Elements and have questions about the Key Switches and keyboard range. I hope my explanation is not too rambling and convoluted.


    Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated…I hope I’ve explained the issue clearly.


    I’m using an N.I. Kontrol S61 keyboard with Hyperion in Kontakt. There’s no problem getting the Ensemble or the individual instruments to load and play, but I can’t figure out how to access the KeySwitches while still being able to play all of the notes in the ensemble or instrument.


    Scenario 1: With the Ensemble loaded and S61 in default Octave settings (ie: not shifted up or down) the lowest note I can play is C1, which is the C note one octave above the lowest Bass note in Ensemble, which is C0, and the highest note playable is C6, the highest note of Violins in Ensemble-C6.

    To play lower Bass notes I’d need to go down 1 Octave, losing half the Violins range. This would also still not give access to Keyswitches.


    This means I have to set S61 to -2 Octaves in order to access the Keyswitches and play the lowest Bass note, which in turn means the highest playable note is C4, which is in the Viola range on the Ensemble…no Violins in range.


    I know we can change the range of instruments in Ensemble and also re-assign the Keyswitches to different notes, but in Ensemble mode, how do I play all the instruments including Violins while also accessing the Keyswitches?



    Scenario 2: In order to have only one instance of Kontakt in Pro Tools and get separate outputs for each instrument, I have Kontakt loaded on an Aux channel in Pro Tools, 3 more Aux channels to make a total of 4 individual outputs coming into Pro Tools from Kontakt, with all 4 Instrument Masters loaded to slots within Kontakt ie: Violin Master, Viola Master etc.


    I have Midi channels 1,2,3,4 assigned to relevant instruments in Kontakt and can play everything and have individual channels for processing in PT.



    What seems to happen is that I can’t see how to get control of the articulations for each ‘Instrument Slot’ in Kontakt…if I change the Keyswitch settings on one instance, such as Violin, it some how affects the other instrument slots.

    Also, the Keyboard display at the bottom of Kontakt doesn’t reflect the instrument I’m playing.


    AND one last thing…is it possible to have individual outputs to the DAW for each ‘instrument’ when Ensemble is loaded?


    I wait the hovering fingers…
     
  2. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    15,186
    Regarding keyswitches and keyboard range, there's no easy way around it. You either need a bigger keyboard, or a smaller keyboard that would be persistently transposed so that it only uses keyswitch range. Even something small like Korg nanoKEY would do. I've seen this done by many.

    Regarding second scenario, please check to which MIDI channel each loaded instrument is set to. If they're set to "omni", that means all the instruments will respond to any MIDI data coming from whatever MIDI channel. You want to have these on individual MIDI channels so that they can have separate control.

    Virtual keyboard can show only keyranges for just one instrument at a time, not multiple instruments at once. If you want to have a better overview of this, you would have to use separate Kontakt instances for each instrument.


    Regarding individual outputs, yes, that's possible:

    upload_2019-10-3_8-20-49.png
     
  3. Victor Kennedy

    Victor Kennedy NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    59
    Thanks Evil,
    I do have an iRig KeysPro 3 octave as well as the S61 (and Kronos 61) ... so how would I setup the iRig to trigger Keyswitches? I don't see how I can have the S61 (or whatever) playing the Kontakt instruments, and at the same time have a 2nd keyboard triggering the keyswitches within that same instrument.

    As for my 'Scenario2' above, I'm not sure that your suggestions is relevant to Hyperion Strings ENSEMBLE...the Ensemble has 4 parts of the String section ie: Violins, Violas, Cells, Basses. I was wondering if it's possible to set indie outs for each of those 4 sections, but I don't think so, as Ensemble is really One Instrument, on One Midi channel...anyway, it's probably more of a Soundiron issue.
    These 'sections' can be loaded as individual 'instruments' within a Kontakt Multi, which I have sorted ok (I think) and I'm aware of Omni ? Midi channels in general. Violins-Midi-1, Violas-Midi-2, etc

    What's really annoying about the S61 is that I can't change the Midi send channel without mucking around in Control editor Templates. Is it possible to change send channels without using KK...?
     
  4. Victor Kennedy

    Victor Kennedy NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    59
    This is crazy. I opened Kontakt in KK and went to load a Multi that I made consisting of 4 parts: Violins-Midi-1, Violas Midi-2, Cellos-Midi-3, Basses Midi-4. In the Browser I go to my personal section, files, and the Multi doesn't appear. The individuals I made are there, such as the same 4 Strings...but the Multi, with all of them included with different Midi channels...it is not there.

    Why won't a Kontakt Multi load from KK? Screen Shot 2019-10-03 at 6.31.54 PM.png
    Screenshot shows on the Left-Kontakt in standalone mode with the Multi loaded, but on the Right is Kontakt loaded from KK and the file browser Without the Multi of Hyperion Set.
     
  5. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    15,186
    KK doesn't support loading multis from its browser. You can only load them from within Edit view in KK, which opens Kontakt's full GUI.

    Also if you'll notice, for every patch you have Output field under patch name. This is how you route them to individual outs.

    Make a new track that sends MIDI to the track with Kontakt, same MIDI channel. Now both your keyboards control the instrument, except you can have one of them transposed.
     
  6. Victor Kennedy

    Victor Kennedy NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    59
    Thanks again.

    Deciding to take it slowly and work through the manual and your tips etc I got the Multi thing sorted and a lot of other stuff. Haven't tried the 2nd kybrd for key switching yet but no worries.

    To check out the Midi channel changing I tried to open the Control Editor with KK as plugin in Pro Tools but message said I needed to upgrade my OS X to use Editor. Strange as I have opened it with KK in standalone mode. I've stayed on El Capitan as I have a 2011 iMac and am always wary of updating OS unless absolutely necessary.

    Anyway I'm preparing to do an upgrade to High Sierra today as I need to do this for a Photo Editor prog I'm interested in - Imerger...seems a better deal than PhotoShop licence.

    I'd like to ask about recording Automation for an instance of KK in Pro Tools, both for a single loaded instrument, as well as the individual instruments if a multi. The user manual talks about recording automation for 'Play Assist' and arpeggios etc, and I may well use arpeggios at some point, but it doesn't tell how to record automation to a track that's already been recorded, or in real time while playing / recording.

    I'm fine with how to record automation in PT and have been doing it for years...the little box up next to Bypass, selecting it in the automation lane of track in PT etc.
    BUT yesterday I had a 4 part multi loaded to Kontakt in KK and from the auto-box at top selected 'Swell', which is for one of the instruments in the multi and can be controlled from the S61 knobs, but it wasn't appearing in that 'instruments' auto lane selections in PT.

    I have the KK on an Aux channel with seperate outs from Kontakt going to 2nd, 3rd, 4th Auxes...Midi tracks assigned to each of the 4 parts...works fine in regards to play/rec, mix, comit/bounce etc. But the Kontakt / KK auto lanes aren't there, even though I have selected the desired automation parameter within the plugin.

    As I've been doing this automation record for ages without KK, maybe it's associated with KK or I've missed something in the KK prefs? Also, how would I select the correct automation parameters in the plugin 'box' if it's a multi with different instruments...ie: does that little 'box' just refer to automation of the first instrument loaded to the multi? I see now way to assign/select automation for the individual instruments within Kontakt within KK. Know what I mean?
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  7. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    15,186
    I can't help you at all with automation on PT, sorry. What I can say is that KK itself will only probably show automation assignments for the first loaded instrument, as I said it doesn't support Kontakt's multis. If you want individual control of every instrument through automation you will need to load individual patches to separate KK instances.
     
  8. Victor Kennedy

    Victor Kennedy NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    59
    Thanks again. I'm not at the machine at the moment but what I described above was selecting an automation parameter for 'One' of the instruments in KK / Kontakt multi but that was not present in the automation lanes of the PT channel.

    I'll check out loading just a single instrument to Kontakt within KK and see if that helps, but I'm not holding my breathe.
    Once again it's beginning to feel as though the limitations of KK within a DAW outweigh the flexibility of using instruments without KK, which of course drastically increase CPU load and deprive users of the KK features. It seems as though the "S keyboard / KK" package are designed more for people using them in a live DJ environment with Maschine etc and not for musicians who write songs and record them in a studio.

    If I had known about the Midi channel transmit issues and the Automation issues etc before buying the S61/KK pack I would have gone for a more versatile control keyboard, as the great content of the Komplete 11 Suite which I have is not dependent on using a N.I. keyboard. I could always set up the Kronos to use as a controller, but that would take a lot of fiddling around and it's big, heavy, and cumbersome, not light and easy to move around on a desk top like the S61.

    I know you are not an N.I. employee and volunteer to help a lot of NI users here, so I appreciated your dedicated support and posts / replies in the forums. I just wish I could be more positive about N.I. hardware / software integration...after all their products are supposed to speed up out work flow, not hinder it by spending days and days on forums trying to find fixes for what are very basic issues when it comes to modern recording, writing etc.
     
  9. Victor Kennedy

    Victor Kennedy NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    59
    Ok...This...
    I found that if a Multi is loaded to Kontakt when inside KK you can only select automation parameters for the 1st instrument slot. In PT you need to use the automation lanes on the channel with KK on it, NOT on the Midi track where you recorded the performance (many people use dedicated Midi tracks alongside the Instrument channel) as the automation parameters do not appear in those menus. The same procedure for KK with just one instrument loaded.

    Best I've found is to record the performance to a Midi Track with it's output assigned to either KK or Kontakt (whatever Instrument) on an Instrument Channel. You can then record enable the Instrument track for automation recording. If you put KK / Kontakt etc on an Aux channel you can't record enable it.

    I know that if KK is used on several different Track/Channels you need to click on the little Keyboard icon in the top in order to assign the S61 knobs to control that instance of KK, but I can't see how to then assign the S61 knobs to control a another Instrument on a different Track/Channel that is not using KK.

    Anyone know how to do this? I'm sure it's something simple I've overlooked.
    Next thing is to learn about making customised templates for extra parameter settings of non N.I. .nks files and Instruments.

    Again, all suggestions appreciated...
     
  10. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    15,186
    To switch between different KK instances you need to press the Instance button on S-series keyboard.
     
  11. Victor Kennedy

    Victor Kennedy NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    59
    Yes thanks, I missed the Instance button. That said, you can also click on the kybrd icon in the KK plugin window.

    What I can't do is select/assign the S61 knobs as CC controllers for an Instrument in the same DAW session that is NOT running inside KK, be it a Kontakt Instrument, or not even N.I.

    It's easy to change from one instance of KK to another in same session, but not to something outide of KK.
    I don't mean the actual triggering / playing of Midi notes, that's fine, it's just the CCassignment and use.

    I can do the CC assign in a session not running KK, but if you have a session with both KK and Non-KK tracks, then KK seems to dominate and won't surrender the CC knobs.
     
  12. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    15,186
    For that you'd need to change the keyboard to MIDI mode.