Kore 1.1 How many different computer auhorizations?

Discussion in 'KORE' started by N.E.R.D, Nov 25, 2006.

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  1. N.E.R.D

    N.E.R.D NI Product Owner

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    Does anyone know with how many computers you can authorize Kore 1.1 to run in standalone without the interface? Is it two? Like the standard NI standalone plugins?

    Cheers
     
  2. ew

    ew Moderator Moderator

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    That's a good question, and one that Henning told me's still being discussed. He or I will let you know as soon as we get a definitive answer.

    One thing is for certain, though; it won't be the unlimited authorizations that it was prior to 1.1, and the authorization limit will apply whether the controller's plugged in or not.

    ew
     
  3. umanoid

    umanoid NI Product Owner

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    i think its a crappy policy to sell something (one of kore's big selling points) based on the ability to use it on many different machines with the kore kontroller unit and then take away that ability. I like that they have opened it up so you can use kore without the kontroller if you needed to,but why limit and hamper that ability? Limit the number of machines without the kontroller..but keep unlimited use with the kontroller.

    I must say i'm tired of being treated like a criminal by software companies with their arcane copy protection policies. If i use a piece of software i buy it. I'm also tired of companies that charge ridiculous amounts of cash for their software and upgrades that are no better than beta software.The whole komplete 4 upgrade debacle is a good example.NI please get your **** together...You aren't the only software in town.
     
  4. ew

    ew Moderator Moderator

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    You can't have it both ways. They listened to you about the controller; isn't it fair that they should be able to put an authorizations limit in as a fair trade?

    ew
     
  5. umanoid

    umanoid NI Product Owner

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    Actually it wasn't my request...I just think its a good idea to have the ability to free it from the kontroller. I only use it in my studio's at the moment but i can see how other folks who have posted on this forum would like to have that freedom..
    And Why can't i have it both ways? :p
    If i can only have it ONE way i would rather have it for the way I purchased it...not lose installs and functionality.This is a slippery slope that i have watched other software/hardware manufactures go down. Does any one remember when itunes allowed you to stream over the internet and make 10 copies of your songs?
    If i buy a hardware synth with my hard earned money it pretty much does what it does from day 1..sometimes os updates add more features (adding features is a good thing)...i expect the same from Kore.
    Kore wasn't fully implemented as a piece of hardware/software when it was first released. I waited many months before purchasing it hoping any bugs would be resolved...It still had issues. I' upgraded the software yesterday in the hopes that it resolved these issues and added some functionality..now its crawling and getting crazy cpu spikes.
    I own ALL of native instruments software and some of its hardware. I'm a fan of their products...I think KORE as a concept is awesome.I think as an execution it has something to be desired. I'm already fairly frustrated with NI and KORE. When their products work they are amazing.Quite often they are bug ridden.The idea of them taking anything away at this point just adds to my frustration.
     
  6. Jason Archibald

    Jason Archibald NI Product Owner

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    Well, they haven't necessarily taken anything away.

    I haven't heard confirmation on this, but if someone keeps Kore at 1.03, will it continue to function on as many machines as desired, as long as the controller is plugged in?

    It's obvious that 100% of people won't be 100% happy on this... but I think if you think of what you're losing and gaining, the net is positive on this one.

    Before you could install the software on as many machines as you wanted but could only use any copy of the software if you had the hardware plugged in to it... now while you can only have it installed on two machines at a time, you don't need the hardware plugged in in order to be able to use the software.

    This is huge in terms of portability and reliability.

    I think the number one scary issue is having the controller fail and not being able to open up any songs that use kore as a plug in(without completely reopening all plugins separately.)
     
  7. umanoid

    umanoid NI Product Owner

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    57

    i'm reakting more to the idea that they might take away installs..putting my vote out on the board before it happens. Two installs isn't always enough. If it were easy to turn your installs off and on i wouldn't mind. Once you have turned an NI install off on a machine you can't turn it back on (like you can with adobe's licensing scheme).
    I have quite a few machines and i find the two install scheme a pain. I have a home studio with two desktops.i have an ibook(1.25 ghz ibook) laptop(with installs) that i used to make music while traveling (kore and all the other NI software have too much cpu overhead requirements at this point). There are days i would love to fire up my music software at the office instead of having to head back to my home studio(its an hour commute) which is were i have everything currently installed. I have cubase installed on my machines at home,laptop,and my office studio machines...All i need to do is use my ilok dongle and my software fires up!
    I know,i know.Dongles generally suck too...i remember when NI had to have a dongle as well..sometimes i think i would prefer an ilok dongle over the two install limit though. Again. I'm tired of being treated like a criminal by the software companies i support.

    to your second point....
    This is very true and something that hadn't occurred to me.
     
  8. BJA

    BJA NI Product Owner

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    Aside from ewistrand mentioning that there won't be unlimited installs for 1.1, I don't see anywhere that talks about this on the website. I haven't installed 1.1 yet, so maybe it is in the documentation, but if I install today, am I limited to two installs? I work with 3 computers. One at the studio, one desktop at home, and one laptop. All 3 are my computers and I am the only one who uses them.

    I would really like to find a way to get 3 installs instead of just 2 for all of my NI stuff. A dongle would probably work great for me, or if I could pay a little more for an extra authorization, I could have access to all of my stuff whenever I wanted. I really don't want to buy another Komplete 4 package, but I may have to at some point if I want complete flexibility.
     
  9. Delta T

    Delta T NI Product Owner

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    295
    This issue is something that I have been thinking about as well. I liked the idea of being able to install KORE on unlimited amount of machines. I also like the idea of not having to use the controller - that makes it possible to use it on two machines connected together at the same time which is real handy at times. But as others have said it could really suck loosing activations.

    More of a concern I have - suppose I decided to opt for the multiple installations using the controller as a key....will any future updates be available for this or I am I stuck with a version that is not 100% functional? I would think that it would be more cost effective for NI to develop further KORE updates for one version instead of doing two versions - one for controller and one without.

    I am also wondering if this means that they will be selling KORE without the hardware in the near future like they are doing with Guitar Rig. I personally think this would be a good marketing thing for them to do.

    Considering the issues above, something that would work for me would be this - IF they do release KORE as a software only package - then it should have the two install limitation that their other software has. But if you have KORE with the hardware controller, allow 4 installs that don't require having the controller to operate...but maybe require it to be connected to have each install authorized. Maybe there is a way that they can have the software set itself up that when you install it you can select stand-alone or controller-keyed....then you could have two or three stand alones and unlimited controller-keyed installs...

    (honestly - I don't like having the installation limitations - but hey, it's their licensing deal... They should allow you to use the software the way you need to to make music - as long as you buy the software to begin with. SawStudio is very generous in this as are others....)

    Dave
    www.ambientstickist.com
     
  10. ew

    ew Moderator Moderator

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    Actually, according to the EULA you can't use it on two machines running at the same time. That's true of all NI apps.

    http://www.nativeinstruments.de/index.php?id=scfaq_us#39061

    ew
     
  11. Delta T

    Delta T NI Product Owner

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    Absolutely correct! I think it is wrong for them to do it this way - but again it's their licensing.

    With KORE I could see them making an exception...

    On one machine you have FM8, Massive, and Kontakt running in KORE with an aux channel or 2 coming from the second machine which would have KORE hosting say Reaktor, Pro53 and Atmosphere..... This allows you the ability to use more of their software product which can't be a bad thing in their eyes...

    I spoke to Ultimate Sound Bank a while ago - I was using their PS05 synth on two fairly low-power computers and requested permission and activation codes from them to install and use on two machines - they didn't have a problem with it. I thought this spoke very highly of them - it allowed me to use their product the way I needed to. I would not have been very happy if I had not been able to get permission from them. I would have had to do multiple passes and while the end result would have been the same, it would have taken me a lot longer to do it.

    Allowing KORE to be used in this manner would really help me out right now. I would run two instances of Guitar Rig in one instance of KORE on one PC and then run it into another instance of KORE on the second PC where possibly other synths/effects would be running. Yea, I could use Chainer or some other host on one machine but I would be happier only having to learn one host and it's quirks. And besides that would leave extra funds available to buy other NI stuff when it comes out... 8>)

    An interesting thing about these type of licenses - if I had a computer that could support KORE running 8 instance of Guitar rig - or running 8 instance of KORE inside of another host - that would be great and would satisfy the license terms - but then to say you can't run a single instance on each of two computers at the same time ...well, that's just doesn't sit right with me..

    Dave
    www.ambientstickist.com
     
  12. ew

    ew Moderator Moderator

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    21,329
    Most other companies allow you to install on ONE computer according to their EULAs.

    What's stopping you from using it anyhow? You can always bounce to audio... speaking of which

    Chainer and the like run about $60. That's not going to give you that much more capital. Try again...

    And that's something I don't understand- why the insistence on staying uncommitted when working on a project? Maybe it's a holdover from when I first started recording back in the mid '70s. If it wasn't right, you either punched in and overdubbed the bad part or did the whole track over.

    Now, my machine can handle a fairly hefty load of plugins (I run out of gas with between six and seven GR instances in KORE if I want headroom for anything else), but nine out of ten times I'll still bounce early and archive my MIDI tracks. In fact, lately I've even forgone that for the most part and recorded live with an audio capture device such as Reaktor's recorderbox in a group insert in KORE standalone, and if I want to do anything more, I'll import it into either Live or Sonar. Perfection's nice, but not when it takes away from the performance and the soul behind it.

    ew
     
  13. Delta T

    Delta T NI Product Owner

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    295
    Some do and some don't. And - you can always contact the company to ask permission. I have found most companies to more then gracious about this.

    Nothing is stopping me from using it. We are talking time. My time to pursue my own music is considerably limited. Besides my full time day job (in the Music Business) I also have a company I run at home (also in the Music Business) and that coupled with the rest of lifes requirements leaves precious little time for my personal music. So, anyway that I can try to streamline the process is very important to me. $60 may not buy a complete NI product - but there are other s/w products out there that it can buy or be put toward. And in the previous example I was mentioning one instance...what if I needed three? Now we would be up to $180...it does add up. The last time I tried Chainer it was not able to do what I needed and in my opinion is not on the same par as KORE - and you pay for that difference. I don't have a problem with that. That's why I purchased KORE. I have been looking at Forte - it's $130 I think. It seems like a decent product but then there is yet another piece of software to learn, keep up with, debug, etc...


    Not sure if I understand what you mean by the "uncommited" remark.... ?

    Again, it comes down to a time issue...and it's not always the recording "thing" that is a concern. I did all that stuff in the 70's and still do it in my home business. However my plans are to be able to take this system out live. I play Chapman Stick and I require two channels of GR processing. Now, some of the patches I have made for GR work in stand-alone but will use 70 to 80% system resources! (note - these are Ambient wash type patches) The "plan" of course is to be able to use this live...and to have perhaps a sequencer driving Battery and possibly some other software as well. Obviously this is not going to be possible on the one machine. So, yep out comes another machine - with KORE on it. Yea I can run GR on one and patch it into the other machine that has KORE running Battery, a midi sequence and maybe Kontakt...all installed from my Komplete 3 install.. yea it works....but here is where you start running into possible violations. Suppose you have purchased Komplete 3 - and installed it on the two machines. You cannot do the above scenario becaus of license violations.... You could I guess do selective installs in each machine but wouldn't you still be violating the Komplete 3 EULA since technically you are running Komplete on two different machines at the same time? I happen to also own the seperate version of Guitar Rig as well as Komplete 3 so technically I can do this if the one machine doesn't have Komplete installed. There are times though when I would want to have two seperate instances of GR running on the one machine so I could provide better eq options, etc... So having KORE operating on each machine would be a definate benefit. Using Chainer for this would not work as I believe it only supported a single audio pair in and out....

    Spectrasoncs allows you to install on multiple machines - their requirement is only one user - the licensed user - is allowed to use it. This make sense. I am sure that NI's intent is not to interrupt a work flow or to get in the way of creativity - I am saying that their licensing policy does do that. You don't think it is odd and potentially counter productive that you can run multiple instances on one machine but not split the load so to speak between two machines? Now, I am NOT talking about installing the software on every machine in a multi-room studio with multiple users....that is a circumstance needing multiple licensing. I would think that they would want their customers to purchase every one of their products and to USE each of them. It doesn't make sense to want that and not allow them the capability to do so in a real-world scenario.

    BTW - what kind of system are you using? I am starting to price another system to hopefully get a little more processing capability out of one machine. Are you using Dual Core's at all?

    Dave
    www.ambientstickist.com
     
  14. ew

    ew Moderator Moderator

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    21,329
    When I say uncommitted here I'm talking about working with virtual tracks for everything instead of audio. It's a symptom of what I call the "fix it in the mix" mentality which I'm seeing more and more among musicians, engineers and producers alike. To my way of thinking, it's just much easier and alive if you just come in and get it right from the start, instead of thinking "I can fix it later".

    No- I'm not using a dual core. I'm using an Athlon 64 3500+ that's slightly overclocked (a 215 FSB instead of the normal 200) with two gigs of RAM. Separate drives for my OS, other non- music apps (and my pagefile) and music apps (and audio). It's used as a multipurpose machine; I'm typing your answer using it right now.

    ew
     
  15. Delta T

    Delta T NI Product Owner

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    295
    Ah - I see what you mean - and I agree. I had a client bring a recording to me and once he found out I could chop the audio up and move things around he had me chopping and sliding bits of audio around to get the timing exact...an hours worth of music... A shame really because after doing that I thought some of the soul or life had been lost.


    I have thought about looking at the AMD's this time around. Still on the fence about which way to go. This machine will be music only though, same as the one it's replacing. Sure would be nice to hear some news about the multi-core support...it would make my decision much easier.

    Dave
    www.ambientstickist.com
     
  16. nutrapuppy

    nutrapuppy NI Product Owner

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    35
    I also agree. I "print" midi parts as audio as soon as I am convinced they have correct notes and useful tones. If I don't commit, I end up chasing my tail, changing this patch, that EQ, that F# to B, etc., resulting in delayed delivery or painfully long sessions, and I refuse to delay delivery. Also, for me, creativity is enhanced by committing to a sonic event and moving to other elements. My DAW seems to prefer many tracks of audio over many VSTi's as well. Once the synth parts are rendered to audio, I have more CPU left for final effects processing, and we all know how CPU-hogging convolution can be. It makes sense for me.

    However, the reason many users use virtual tracks this way is because the trade magazines and manufacturers, NI included, have marketed products this way, selling all these options, patch changing possibilities, reamping, etc.

    This non-committal work paradigm is, after all, part of the evolution of music technologies.

    Also, many users compose using the technology to explore new ground, and committing to a part to early just doesn't get the desired results. Or, consider the less-experienced users who are not quite comfortable trusting their ears or monitors just yet. They may need to come back and re-evaluate patches and other compositional elements, possibly in several different studios. An infinite sonic palette can be overwhelming, especially when deciding which part or tone best serves a song.

    In short, EW, just because you and I are old-school doesn't mean we do it better or that people should not continue creating the way they are now. Not that you are implying they are doing something wrong, but the questioning does necessitate some clarification.

    The tools we buy from NI should serve the users optimally and elegantly, allowing for as many different approaches and techniques as possible. I believe this, anyway.

    That said, I just read that KORE 1.1 is allowing 3 authorizations which seems to be a fair compromise at this point.

    Despite the impossibly comedic failures of NI recently (it ain't over yet - where is my K4 update they told me was to arrive last week?), I appreciate them allowing for policy change to better serve the users. Granted, it is kind of like having the dog help scrape the mess off of my shoe, but the effort is worth something here.

    I wrote in another post that I would not consider Kore until it was no longer a dongle. With this update news I may well be convinced to jump in.

    Call me crazy.
     
  17. Delta T

    Delta T NI Product Owner

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    295
    I think 3 is fair - I would rather have seen unlimited but hey - I'm willing to compromise!

    You know, I really can feel for them with the recent server problems they had. I don't know if they manage their own servers or if they are leasing space at a server farm - which I would think would be smarter for them to do. My company recently had a serious problem with our host company dropping the ball on an email system update - nearly paralyzed us for almost a week. Fortunatley I had several email accounts set up through our VERIZON account for just such an emergency. It is so frustrating because you have no direct control over the work being done and I suspect that this might have been what was happening...they didn't have their own hands on the gear. These problems couldn't have come at a worse time for them.

    However, the delivery problems - well, they should have been better prepared. If you deal in the MI business though you see that this kind of practice is becoming more of the norm rather then the exception.

    Dave
    www.ambientstickist.com
     
  18. sashweed

    sashweed NI Product Owner

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    46
    Hey nutrapuppy,
    would you mind sourcing or pointing us in the direction of where you read this from?
    I'd like to verify this before I attempt installing this on my "Auxillary Synth Station" computer.

    Cheers
     
  19. umanoid

    umanoid NI Product Owner

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    57
    it looks like NI has given us three authorizations for our komplete 4. yay.
    thats a start in the right direction. Now i hope they come up with a good resolution for us kore owners...I just purchased a new quad 3ghz intel machine..I want to test kore and komplete on it to see if it has cpu issues like it does on my dual 2k machine.
    M
     
  20. tronics99

    tronics99 NI Product Owner

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    37
    3 Authorizations is totally cool and allows for a seperate Computer dedicated to the vstis well as an install on a mobile computer.

    Thanks NI, you rock big time on this one!!!

    Best regards,
    tronics
     
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