Kore discontinuation

I had a look at it and more than once. I know what 'hubris' means. <(ancient Greek ὕβρις) referred to actions that shamed and humiliated the victim for the pleasure or gratification of the abuser.>
In modern usage, it's basically 'pride goeth before a fall'. I didn't find it appropriate or astute. The context for my becoming this disagreeable is that if anyone has come close to having fit the (original) word it's you: "Boo hoo hoo...my sound-making doodad of choice was discontinued and I will never be the same again."

It's rather grand in this context anyway, as I already suggested. Implicit in my problem with that tone is my disagreement with your position and that I think you're projecting.

 

just to remind everyone, i don't get paid for Moderating, so i feel i have a right to put my opinion across. and regular Reaktor and Maschine Forum users know that if i disagree with NI, i say it on the forums.

but i have to disagree with you because i totally understand why you are biased towards Kore, and from what i understand about your working methods Kore is definitely the right tool for what you want to do and Maschine is not.

greggybud, mentioned Reaktor: to be honest, i really thought that Reaktor was going to be discontinued, after all there were no updates for 5 years! if Reaktor had been discontinued i would have been very upset, so i can understand why many of you are upset about Kore being discontinued. i would say that the success of the Finger and Mouth fx and also the cult status of Lazerbass and now Razor have really helped Reaktor's cause.

to be honest, if Reaktor has been discontinued i would have understood why. it is only recently that the manuals have been halfway decent. Reaktor was rubbish in terms of being used in a DAW, there are hardly any tutorials, i could go on and on.
now Reaktor is much better in terms of DAW use and NI are slowly making the manuals better, so for now i feel optimistic about Reaktor's future.

and yes, i do feel that Maschine is a better hardware/software combination than Kore, but i appreciate that most of you disagree with me on that. but i also have frustrations with Maschine and some of those missing features make it difficult for me to use it Standalone for live performances.

so i might be a Maschine fan boy but i am not going keep quiet about my issues just because i am a Maschine Forum Moderator.

sowari

 

Development has come to a halt except for a x64 update in a TBD future. There are bugs in it that affect my usage of it that don't appear likely to be resolved if there is now the lowest priority.

It was marketed as the hub of a line of products, that even the ability to obtain will soon come to a dead halt. Following that, a contradictory and self-serving line of marketing in front of an explanation that has been walked back some, officially.

I'm sure there are things in Maschine I would enjoy and exploit. BUT, it won't be the hub of anything for me. NI couldn't invent a better way to ensure me not buying Maschine, with this change of horses in midstream and specious reasoning put forth to sell that decision to us. The problems cited signal poor project managment and the decision comes off as short-sighted.

 

The Crux of the Matter

I think that it is the crux of the matter here for many Kore users...The way that this whole fiasco has unfolded has been almost laughable...No input from Mr Noiserot and Sowari will really influence our decision,because it is the way that NI have conducted themselves that is really the focus of our disappointment and will most defintely be influencing any consideration of the Maschine platform...

Also - it wouldn't matter how many features they tack on as a retrofit...It just ain't the same machine..

NI's trade mark value and the perception of any real customer service have been severely affected by the decision to axe Kore and it will take a considerable effort on NI's part to regain the confidence of a justifiably disillusioned user base..

BTW - Just who did receive that KORE survey that NI told us was sent out ? That's a big mystery to many of us around these parts

 

Your perception of an effect on NI's trademark value is coloured by a decision you are disappointed about. It will have next to zero effect on anyone outside this group.

The survey was covered on a thread some time back - Try a search for survey

 

I think it's obvious that although NI have been weighing this decision to discontinue Kore for a long time, they really hadn't made that decision until right before the announcement, everything about this points to that.

Like I said in my overtly long post above though, the main thing that's frustrating for Kore users is this lack of clear direction after the decision.

"Hey guyz hurry up and buy the last version of Komplete that will be compatible with Kore in this kool sale! Don't worry we'll give you our official policy on Kore sporadically in a 100 page thread and a weak after the sale ends via email... In the meantime buy Maschine which will get the resources that Kore was getting, oh BTW resources doesn't mean features, our bad didn't mean to lead you on...."

 

The issue here is TRUST

The word WILL get out. You know the old saying, a dissatisfied customer will tell 50 people, while a satisfied customer will (maybe) tell 5.

I'm involved in electronic Meetup groups here in San Diego, and I've been very vocal about my disappointment with NI over the last few months to the members of this group. If it doesn't affect their opinions, so be it, but they deserve to be informed about things like this.

NI make amazing products, but as others have said, the issue here is TRUST.

Cheers,

-ix

 

True, but if NI announced the next big thing tomorrow, that everybody needed, it would be bought without hesitation, and probably by the majority of this group too. The need to buy the latest and greatest is a strange and wonderful thing

 

Not without hesitation by the people I'm telling. And that's all I can do.

On a side note, I tried out Maschine today. It's a really amazing product, but it's not a Kore replacement, and it's not for me necessarily. It's great for sample-based producers, so it seems, but with it's only made me start looking more at Ableton's integrated hardware solutions, and of course Max/MSP and Max for Live.

And @machinesworkinghardforyou - no, you're not alone. Your feelings and opinions are eerily similar to mine.

Cheers,

-ix

 

The Perception of Trust

I don't agree with this statement at all and I am sure that I am not in the minority here...

Many of us have already stated that we don't want the latest and greatest Maschine

Before the decision to axe Kore,your assumption that the latest,greatest wizz bang thing from NI would be bought without hesitation is more than likely correct..

But this unilateral decision has resounded more deeply than any other that NI has ever made and the majority of the Kore user base have now questioned their undivided loyalty to NI.

We're becoming more informed consumers and that is a positive thing...

I still believe that NI will have to work very hard to win back the confidence of a large percentage of the user base because of the disquiet that this Kore fiasco has created.

 

Agreed.

 

Good post. I was also worried about Reaktor - it was the first product by NI I bought and although I never got as deep into it as I have Kore I still use it daily and would also be gutted if it got dropped. As you say the same sort of warning signs were there as there were for Kore: stalled/slow development, mixed messages, incomplete features/manuals, unfixed bugs etc, but I kept telling myself it was inconceivable NI would drop their flagship product, the thing that they built their whole product range around. Yes I'm talking about Reaktor here, but I could equally be talking about Kore.

Much as I can try objectively, and as a fan myself of NI's stuff, to understand where they are coming from over Kore and appreciate the complexities of the decision, and much as I am aware of its limitations as well as its strengths, it still sucks. Yes, I can keep using it for some unknown period of time (or more if I "freeze" a PC but I don't like that idea) and am determined to keep producing sounds for it and music with it, but the fact remains that as a product it is effectively dead (bar those 2 updates) - it has no future, there will never be a Kore 3, we will never get the limitations fixed, anything I produce in terms of Kore sounds will have an increasingly shrinking market/audience, and I can tell you now that many developers I know of plugins that go into it and hosts that host it already no longer feel as compelled to take Kore into account in their development work and bug fixing.

 

very good, post worth quoting in full.

sowari

 

Lol, the day they discontinued Kore, they took 24 products out of the online shop. Almost half of the Komplete range Make that one more year of development half a year of development, the second update will be end of the year.

Only Acoustic Refractions is Kore dependent in K7, nothing else. The other soundpacks are dependent on GuitarRig 4, Reaktor 5 and Kontakt. You can probably use K7 for some years to come. Many Kontakt instruments can also be exported to other samplers if NI discontinues Kontakt

 

It wasn't a definitive statement more of a wait and see.
Based on what happened from 1.5 to 1.6 it's easy to see NI is dedicated to the growth and expansion of Maschine.

I just hope whatever they do, however they do it, whenever they do it they don't create a resource hog.
Currently the performance offered by KORE and Maschine is more CPU friendly than many of the options out there.

 

---
A week in the can and I come back to this?

Tell you what NI, david...be smart and lock the thread.

End it!

I see no reason to let the tension build with pointless posts and arguements in this thread that have not been topic related (never read the word Maschine in the topic).

Those who will stay with you will stay. The rest of us are pretty done, anyway you so choose. Make your pack announcement allready, but $400 bucks from my wallet you are NOT getting.

KIER...I know your in the Lions den....but this is really a job for your boss. You act like you coming to bat for us, but where is the administration? Shouldn't they be coming to bat for us? Is this really your job? There should not be a middle man. Where is the BIG MAN? Where is he amongst all this? Not one chime? Some party celebrating reaquisition of company stock, or in the toilet playing with an electrical fan? Praying?

Your company is doing me no favors. I've spent thousands with you.
Has really not treated me well over the past two.
They have no buisness plan, and no concern of communication.
Are completely out of touch with thier consumers and thier conerns.
I see no reason to prolong the break-up between us.


Lock the thread.

 

Funny

Funny

 

Yeah it was funny, although I don't get the toilet and electrical fan quip.

Hopefully the fan is battery operated because if you drop it in the toilet while it's plugged into the mains, you'll get a shock and look like the Battery 3 icon. Or Deadmau5.

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWyCCJ6B2WE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWyCCJ6B2WE[/ame]

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOKK8mAkiUI"]YouTube - ‪Wizard of Oz-- If I Only Had A Brain‬&rlm;[/ame]

lol couldn't resist I saw Flaming Lips play this at Hollywood Forever a couple weeks ago... so sick!