Kore replacements

So, I've been playing a bit with Plogue's Bidule and Big Tick's Zen. They're not quite there yet but some ideas they have are better then how Kore works.

Zen uses fxb's and a auto import. Just one click for every sound you want to import. Far smarter then making a koresound, picking a place to put it, typing the name, assigning controllers, etc.

On my iMac it makes Kontakt 4 crash. Anyone else having problems with that? In Logic the NI synths don't receive midi. When I run Zen in Kore they work as usual, lol. Big Tick mailed me he doesn't own Kontakt. We need to support him because Zen's going in the right direction. It will even import hardware presets sometime in the future.

Bidule is a breeze. It starts with an empty sheet of paper. No slots. You put a plugin somewhere and you can connect it to other plugins using wires. It also has its own blocks, much more then Kore. Everything is midi assignable. It has 32 track midi players and midi recorders. It doesn't load Kore and doesn't have a "mute plugin" option yet. The standalone version is free until they release version 1.0. They're over 0.9 now so it's almost there. The plugin version is below 90 euro. It also has built in audio and midi effects (like spectral to midi, lol) and instruments. We can come a long way rebuilding stuff like acoustic refractions and sonic fiction in there. To do that we first have to save all of the presets used in the different plugins.

I made a patch using Prism's dulcimer, routed it parallel to GR's Tweed Delight and GrainStatesFX's Stretched Rain and the clean and both processed signals to the mixer. Then the grainstate also to the Tweed Delight. That worked much faster then Kore or Logic could have.

 

You can't replace perfection! I'll stick with Kore as it easily fits in with my work flow and I will not abandon a product just because its been given an early grave. There are plenty alternatives out there though.

Jamie

 

Kore's not perfect. I'd love to see something out there with the browsing-sound design combination though.

 

Kore is the best at this time in its category i found.

You can compensate single core working
1 make pages with devices on\off buttons in the user section of the perf level.
2 make perf presets with your different settings
3 disable "plug presets change with perf presets" (probably necessary )
4 play your perf presets

You can add a controller (ex bcf2000) for sends , mix , mute........of kore
1 kore standalone = just assign cc's to sends , mix , mute........
2 kore vst = use midevice control extension (excellent).

You can move your sound or plug at any time in your matrix .
Ex : you are using maschine in kore opened in a source slot
maschine play battery in a kore slot
in 1 second you want enter the signal path in maschine to "autowrite" this
nice battery beat with maschine disto and_or a vstfx.
Then just open a group slot and drag&drop maschine inside
The rest is quick re-assignation !
And your nice battery beat is modulated as you want. just side chain is lacking to reproduce that
in multiple !

Using kore with touchscreen is really nice to browse sound or select slots
A second life for my kore


Why do you want to replace kore Nielsdolieslager?

imo the good choice is leave new komplete for a while not kore

 

Don't worry, I'm not buying Komplete 8. Might reconsider if NI makes koresounds for it or makes kore compatible with the new format.

I don't have Maschine or any other controller beside Kore so I can't try if Bidule can do what you do with Kore. Still there are things Bidule can do without plugins that Kore can't like midi recording.

Kore will stop working at an unknown time, I just want to be prepared.

 

but surely you can use the Kore Controller to send MIDI to Bidule?

sowari

 

nielsdolieslager wrote
"Kore will stop working at an unknown time, I just want to be prepared."

That's it! As you work on through the years adding comments, categorising etc it will all be in vain because sooner or later the new OS will out run it.

With 1000s of sounds that's a disaster if you do this for a living.

I too think Zen looks promising. I would combine it with Vienna Ensemble Pro however.

 

For me, exluding the sound browser, the most important capability in Kore is its morphing. Based on the capabilities of Alchemy, I think it would be worth exploring future options with Camel Audio - maybe NI could consider selling some of the Kore technology to them as they clearly already have a relationship with them.

 

Maybe they already have. I remember thinking to myself that Alchemy seemed to be a capable version of Kore but minus the crashes.
Alchemy is definitely worth a watch.

 

d'oh. Yes. So far I haven't even tried Kore as a midi controller, I never used midi controllers before

But Bidule is free to try, check it out!

 

I had talking yet about camel for a kore rebirth here but i really doubt it will be done.


Le bidule m'a l'air très intéressant !
Question : does it have a audio mixer ?

The zen feature " It will even import hardware presets sometime in the future."
could be very interesting.

Performance aspects
It think with kore , zen , bidule and others i must use a hardware controller
dedicated to vol,sends,mutes.... kore controls the plugs and vol,sends,mutes
but not in same time.

hardware controller is very important for performance&live softwares

bcf or bcr : 150&130e (imo mackie control quality is bs compared to bcf : i tested )

I want to perform with kore and k8 or windows8 i don't care.


Once i like kore it's unsupportable to use it like a simple midi controller even it is good
And you ?

 

Yup. Vienna Ensemble Pro is also on my wishlist, that way I could open the abandoned Kore from an Mac mini or something

Zen uses the open preset format. Using a closed format was not a nice thing of NI and now they do it again with Maschine.

NI should really make a ksd to fxb translator. And make it capable of unnesting the koresounds in the koresounds. Imagine you feed the "Prepared Bass" from Acoustic Refractions in it and in return you get the "Prepared Bass.Absynth.fxb", "Prepared Bass.GR3.fxb" and "Prepared Bass.Kontakt.fxb" preset.

You could just throw your whole library into Zen.
---

Yes, it has an audio mixer. You can assign everything with midi learn so one huge controller for all plugins at the same time should be possible.

 

Thx

The problem with plugs midi learning is that you make presets for each projects..
Loosing time.....
With kore you make user pages easily and if you need...and are saved withs sounds
Midi learn is cool with templates for general elements of the soft
Ex : default kore perf with mixer 16 tracks 8 group tracks 2 aux and sends for each
channel. All channels are muted by default to economize cpu.
I think kore+bcf/bcr+kore midi players+simple midi keyboard/maschinemidi/mpd=
serious live act station like ableton not just a perform station.
Kore is hw&sw solution but you can add controllers and forget all speculations
therefore we got to take care about the new solutions...

I see keep your database is your first motivation
keep same or better flexibility than kore
keep sound design extra features or even improved
keep a simple ergonomy

The hard&soft package is a must have today : look at the maschine success

 

Depends on what you do. I have no desire to do these things live at all. The last time I performed with computer I let the computer accompany me with electronic drums, basses and pads while I would sing and play a home-sampled antique out of tune piano doubled by Tonehammer's squeeking washingmachine
The mixing was done at home. I'm an arranger, singer and piano player, not an electronic music performer.

 

Well then sir, what you need is Maschine. Just push 3 pads and viola! You're an electronic music performer.

 

watch yourself, people get banned here for insulting Maschine users

 

Maschine is the kore killer it's sad i like the two but prefer kore and would like
ni update and improve it

I was talking that replacing kore by just a software is difficult because it is
soft&hard and it's useful and quick.

Soft&hard is the future and maschine is just a form of this.

I think it's possible that firms make "live host" like kore in the future

 

Who said I was insulting anyone, just stating the facts...

Anyway I could use the ban, I need time off from this place...:S

Maybe I'll email Thomas and see what he can do.

 

:lol:
I hear you, I started the thread bringing the latest news (updated plugins will not load in kore) to KVR and it's like a fulltime job.

 

Me too but only on Saturdays. It doesn't help that it's so easy to catch up on threads here by my Droid phone.

I should take a vacation day today. I'm going to close this window as soon as I post this.

Step away from the browser, step away from the browser!