Kore Users: What Are Your Plans for K8?

'Compatible' for my purposes here means 'Kore sees it as a browsable preset and allows you to load it'. A big part of Kore's appeal to me is the browser; I'm not a person who spends hours in sound design.... I'm a person who spends hours making a song. As such, if I get to a certain point and think 'I want a dark, monophonic bass' then a browser that will find all applicable products is required so as I can find my sound, tweak a touch if needed and get on with the song. Kore does that currently, and I'm now back to my hope that Maschine will (for the most part) take its place in my personal way of working for this purpose.

This does not mean I'll stop using Kore, but if Maschine gives me a good browser in K8u then (for my needs) I'll be happy. If the browser in Kore becomes broken to some extent because it'll find sounds from 80% of the products rather than all of them then it's suddenly become a whole lot less useful to me. Again, these comments are for my own needs and I accept that everyone uses it slightly differently.

 

No probs... also should have pointed out that I'm currently using K6 (upgraded from 5). I didn't think K7 really offered me anything I needed but did buy several components separately (some at full price, some on sale/with vouchers). I probably spent as much as the upgrade would have cost but without 'the bloat' of stuff I would not use.

Financially things are tight right now so spending $200 takes a lot of justification. The uncertainty of how everything slots in with Kore is not pushing me to upgrade quickly.

 

as far as i understand Komplete 8 stuff will not be seen in the Kore Browser. by default, it will only be seen in the Maschine Browser.

the only reason that Komplete 7 is seen in the Kore Browser, is because the patches were saved as ksds. this is not the case with Komplete 8.

and i agree you should not stop using Kore. as i have said there are some great Instruments and FX that are part of the various Kore 2 Libraries that are very useful to use within Maschine.

sowari

 

Hmmm. When I read the first post of this thread

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143330

where Keir says that the 'latest engines' will be integrated into Kore, I thought this would mean that the browser would work for these products..... As the 'latest engine' versions of the products he mentions will be the same as the release versions in K8, I therefore believed that the browser will work as it does now with these new versions. Sounds like I may be misunderstanding here?

There was then another post where Keir was saying about not upgrading to the latest versions and here we are at the confusion stage again..... If the browser will indeed be broken with the updates that are coming at the end of the month we need to know now. As stated, it's not so much of an issue for me as I have Maschine for the main browser duties but others are not in my position.

 

Personally, I won't be upgrading. I have purchased many Komplete updates and both Kore and Maschine but the way NI have put down Kore right before the latest update... no way!

I know we are all waiting for Keir to provide more info on how the update will work with Kore and Maschine but this is exactly the problem, there shouldn't be ANY doubt about how well it integrates... it's NI's responsibility to create a smooth transition!

The Kore debacle is a game changer NI... you've lost my trust!

 

The latest engine versions of Absynth 5, FM8, Guitar Rig 4, Massive, Kontakt 4 and Reaktor 5 will be integrated into Kore

Those are not the latest engines for Komplete 8. for instance, Kontakt 5 and Guitar Rig 5 will be part of Komplete 8.

remember Komplete 8 products will be seen in the Maschine Browser. the Maschine Browser does not use ksds.

sowari

 

IMO this was one of the biggest faults KORE had.

Example:

You own Albino2 and in Kore you have spent countless days meticulously tagging thousands of sounds.

Now Albino3 is released. You load Albino 3 in Kore and guess what? All that work you spent tagging sounds for Albino 2...they won't work in Albino 3.

This is what made Kore a lousy browser for those who desired a large long-term browser library.

So is NI going to incorporate this fault into Maschine?

 

I know that Kontakt 5 and GR 5 are 'Komplete 8' only, but all the others are a free update to existing users aren't they? There isn't a difference in Komplete 8 Massive vs Komplete 7 Massive is there? Not once the latest free update is installed.....

 

the difference is that the updates have been made Maschine friendly, i quote New preset format with support for Maschine 1.7 sound browser

sowari

 

This is where there is still confusion. The engines in Kore must support the ksd format, obviously, the latest updates of Absynth, Massive and FM8 won't when they are released. So, at some point, the functionality has been split. Will the latest kore engine versions include the bug fixes applied to the standalone versions? Will the plugin id's change to allow simultaneous use of both within kore - we don't know yet. It would be very strange indeed if we could load up non ni vendors external plugins into kore but not the latest updated versions of Absynth, Massive and FM8

 

There was this mail from NI support to Chico Jones:

"the plugins included in Komplete 8 will not work in Kore as you will not be able
to save them as .ksds and load them successfully. The new plugins have a new file
format - .nabs/.nfm8/.nmsv... and will not be recognized by Kore"

it still causes me a headache. How do you tell Kore to load external plugins instead of internal?
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I'm not upgrading to Komplete 8 because there are no koresounds for Komplete 8. That way, they are breaking Kore's functionality within the warranty period. It stinks to discontinue Kore 3 months before K8 so they don't have to make Koresounds. Upgrading will slow down my workflow.

 

They need to be uniquely identified within kore - simple as that. Kore at the moment seems inconsistent. Some operations it will handle the Komplete instruments as external plugins, others it will not.

If it turns out that the Komplete instruments can't be loaded as external plugins after the next update I think NI will really have shot themselves in the foot - but, at this point, I don't think anything would surprise me. Forcing incompatibility would be a very strange decision, but, then again, I'm not in charge of the beans.

 

My worst nightmare concerning the updates is that I cannot run the new versions of the plugins in Kore and therefore can not add anymore new sounds to the Kore library that I download for absynth, fm8, gr4 and massive.

The solution is really simple: make Kore capable of reading the new format.
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The only way to force Kore to load the external plugins is to take the internal plugins out of the Kore vst folder. You have to put them back though for koresounds from korepacks.

The koresound references to either the internal or the external plugin. Factory library koresounds for Kontakt, GR, FM8, Massive, Reaktor and Absynth open the external plugin. Soundpack koresounds open the internal. They did that so Kore owners that don't have Kontakt, GR, FM8, Massive, Reaktor and Absynth cannot open the koresounds for the factory libraries... it would be like owning the full product

 

I can see the difficulty NI have in addressing this to suit all possible solutions, but, as has been said a million times already, it was NI that made this strategic decision to change format, it is therefore NI's responsibilty to provide the solution to suit those who purchased kore ready Kompletes.

 

Komplete 8 is not coming with any koresounds, meaning not one sound will appear in Kore. We have to add them ourselves.
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With the latest engine he meant the current engines, not the upcoming engines. He also advised us not to put the upcoming engines in the Kore vst folder.

So you already have your answer: no Kore browsing for Komplete 8.

Unless they make koresounds for us like they did for Komplete 7. I think legally they have to since Kore's warranty lasts 2 years (companies 1) and Kore is the Komplete browser, not just Komplete 7.

Still it's better to make Kore compatible to the new format.

I already emailed them about it, no reply. Maybe you all should start emailing them warranty claims. Only Keir and Thomas read this forum.

 

I think many from NI read the forums, just Thomas and Keir provide the majority of the feedback

 

at the very minimum, i want the new Komplete plugins to behave like any other third party plugin. i agree with kb123 that NI will have shot themselves in the foot if the new - Komplete 8 - plugins don't work like third party plugins in the Kore update.

sowari

 

Hello. Nope, didn't go for the Guitar Center deal. Just really busy with my job.

Sowari, I'm not going to pursue further examples and details with you in this thread. I've already taken it much farther than I originally intended FOR THIS THREAD, and so now I'm gonna stop.

Besides that, I now believe you are part of the Maschine 1.7 beta team so I'm afraid the more you talk (or insist on talking), the closer you get to violating NDA. I refuse to be a part of that and I suggest we all excercise self control and stop right now. I'm not going to respond to you anymore on this Sowari, because your loss to the beta program would probably not be a good thing.

I've given up on Keir's ability to get answers in a timely manner during this period of the German August holiday. Or at any time, really; it just takes too long. Maybe he's also under NDA and has to wait for permission to publish answers. That would explain a lot and it is a telling sign that the end-users really aren't all that important in Native's plan.

And maybe I'm a good indicator of that because I've pretty much decided that I feel fairly confident about moving ahead with K8U. Yeah, the full boat. Yeah, in spite of Native's poor treatment of us.

But maybe after this K8U is off my mind I'll be able to move on and stop buying NI hardware and software for a few years.

All in all for me, it's just a matter of finances and the calendar now. I'm still reading your posts, but I'm very very busy with my real job this week, so I won't be able to respond very often...

 

What gets me is that they wont go with a universal format = .fxp and .fxb with the new plugin versions.

And then also to allow Kore to import/export fxp/b We could then manually import sounds a bank at a time which isn't so bad.

This would then give it longivity since the rest of the plugin world has woken up to using fxp/b and we could also import those sounds bank at a time.

But no..NI cant see this staring them in the face.

Sad and frustrating.

As Kymia has pointed out I think that the vst "Zen" is the answer. If we all gave him a bit of support we'd have a usable long term solution. Protocol standards are the future




It's ok to freeze the internal engines in thier current state

 

I'm not going to even consider K8 till all of the updates for KORE are delivered as promised. They want more of my business they need to prove that they deserve it by keeping their promises.