KSP Problems Still With Us

Hi Amy,

That would be a nice option but it alone is not sufficient. What you are asking for is fancier version of the fade_in/fade_out functions where you can stipulate the shape of the curve.

But, there are many situations in which one needs to 'hold' the volume level of an event at a certain level for an indeterminant length of time. In other words, the ramp speed cannot always be determined in advance. One example of this would be the difference between a glider and a bender. To accurately simulate say a slide trombone, you must be able to move and hold the slide as you wish (in the most musical way). If we 'motorize' the slide, even with a lot of choices as to the shape and speed, it will still be limiting in certain situations.

Therefore, the change_vol() function is more generally useful than a fancy fade function. Even though it is a little more work to put it in a loop, the flexibility far outweighs the disadvantage. What would be nice is to have both a fancier set of fade functions plus the needed primitives. But if we can only get one or the other, we need to have the primitive because we can make that into the higher-order function, but, not the other way around.

I'm glad to see more users chiming-in about this problem and I sincerely hope that NI will wake up and do something about it.

God Bless,

Bob

 

If a wave is multiplied by 0.5 at millisecond 30000 and then it is multiplied by 0.75 at millisecond 30001 then we'll hear a click... is that what you're saying Nicki? What if the wave at millisecond 30001 is only multipled by 0.501....will we still hear a click?

Why is that? If I plug an lfo into my volume attribute that comes out smoothly...and all that's really doing is just sending a series of change_vol messages via a sin() function.

Does KSP evaluate as floats or as integers? If it evaluates as floats and does so on a millisecond basis I don't see why clicking should occur.

I understand that you hadn't intended change_vol() to be used the way everyone wants to use it... but it looks like you released a bit of a genie from the bottle with the whole idea. Early on I too attempted to develop my own lfo's using change_vol(), change_pitch(), and change_pan(). All three of these produced clicks...if my memory serves me...and so I abandoned them.

As you develop try to keep the bigger picture in mind. Volume, Pitch, and Pan are core elements of a sound. People will probably want to script for them...and they will probably not want clicks. More experimental sound engineers may also wish to code for controller changes... these too should be fluid, non-clicking, events if they aren't already. Finally if you get to a point where you start making some of the core features of the sampler available to us for evaluating and editing in KSP (i.e. wave value at specific point, current position in wave, sample length, etc) without producing clicks....then some of us old ASR fans can start implementing transwave functions, whilst FM fans can start building bizarre wave modulation engines.

As a parting message...never over-estimate the loyalty of a sample developer and never under-estimate how angry they can become if they don't feel you're listening. I know some of these people... they're hardcore.

 

Hi skew,

I'll add my amen to what you have said (with the possible exception of noise with the change_tune() function).

Personally, all my noise problems have been with the change_vol() function. I have never tried using change_pan() in a loop, but I have used change_tune() a lot and it doesn't seem to produce any noticeable clicking, has anyone else noticed noise with the change_tune() function?

And Nicky, you have not responded to my question about when we might expect NI to deal with this problem? Just saying it won't be fixed in V2.1.1 (although I don't know why) doesn't say anything about when it will be fixed. We'd all like to know when we can look forward to start using this important function.

Bob

 

Then there was my response:

To which Nicki responded with absolute silence! Ever notice how 'quiet' it gets when anyone asks for any kind of time estimate from NI? I guess that pretty well sums up just how 'important' this issue is to them.

Bob

 

Ddas, if you're reading this could you please notify NI that we would appreciate a response.

Saying that NI realizes the importance of this issue but that there'll probably be no fix for it in the next update leaves us wondering if NI really appreciates its importance. We've been waiting many months now and most people had their hopes high thinking that the change_vol problem/limitation would be fixed in K2.1 since Markus wrote in this forum that NI considered including this on the top-20 list of bugs to be fixed in K2.1! Since we have waited so long for this we would now really want a time estimate for the implementation of some kind of individual note volume contouring in Kontakt.

Regards,
Nils

 

Ok so we dont get it in the next update - it would be senseless to delay a new update just because one problem is not solved. But, if we knew that the problem is being worked on and that there would definitely be a K2.1.2 as soon as this is fixed, then this would settle users minds. A compromise I know.

 

Agree! Just some info would be good.

 

I was one of the users on the old Gigastudio forum who helped compile a list of feature requests for that product. One of my additions, which seemed pretty blue sky at the time, was the development of a scripting language to enable us to use expressions in manipulating the audio.

I switched products because nemesys seemed unresponsive, and when tascam bought it I gave it up for dead. Imagine my delight, all these years later, to upgrade to K2 with it's amazing new scripting possibilities. As a producer of psychedelic music I am continually seeking to develop new sounds which will suprise and shock the listener. KSP has become one of my essential tools for doing such and enables my years of programming experience to flow into my music. But it is equally frustrating in the things which it lacks. Perhaps we are too spoilt now, with our KSP, but I too find myself sitting, like an eager puppy, by the door...waiting for my new KSP toys. Please listen to us and, in response, we'll make you groovey things which will continue to set your product apart from the competition.

Perhaps a sampler with the ability to script audio manipulations in exciting and potentially complex responsive new ways was not what you had envisioned from KSP...but now you've unleashed the dream at least let us know you're gonna give it a whirl..and not just leave us near but so far away from something sooo cool.

Don't let people go home with the opinion that Kontakt is a library playback engine and ShortCircuit is a more flexible alternative. Kontakt won all of it's many users based upon it's flexibility...please stay faithful to the flex

 

Thanks N.I. about the fix of change_vol problem in 2.1.1. I think a lot of people will be happy about it. Like Big Bob and others have said, it will bring the KSP features of Kontakt closer to it's full potential.

Cheers!!

 

Agreed... this is GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!

Cheers,

T

 

I agreed, too. Kontakt2 has established again the position as a leading sampler.
And the time has come that I can use K.2.1.1 with Cubase3.1 and Overture4 not having memory corruption.

Thanks very much, NI !

 

I haven't actually gotten my hands on the update yet, but the reports sound great! Nils says the PCE script now runs without noise artifacts and if that observation is correct, then K2.1.1 has passed the ACID TEST. Dynamitec has also reported that the open-editor speed slowdown problem has also been fixed and if so, that is a real blessing for those of us who write large scripts.

I want to thank all of you who helped me keep this thread in the forefront but I especially want to thank NI for listening and fixing this vital function. I know you won't regret it because it's been the stumbling block to so many powerful scripts and I'm sure they will begin appearing soon.

This news couldn't have come at a better time for my old heart, so I'm going to take this as NI's get-well present to me. Thanks from the bottom of my heart and God Bless.

Bob

 

I for one am impressed. NI went from "no fixes planned" to fixing the change_vol problem (and other important ones as well) in a heartbeat.

It's great that NI listened to their users, recognized the importance of this and acted on it with such swiftness. As Tatsu Nagao said, things like these will go a long way to keep Kontakt in the lead as the best and most versatile sampler out there.

Thank's for listening and for a job well done to all involved at NI.

N

 

Hi,

It's incredible !!!!

change_vol work now !!!!



Olivier

 

Hi all,

glad you like it

keep those phantastic scripts coming!


Best,
Markus

 

I'm amazed... I wander off for a week or two...only to come back and find you've implemented this wonderful feature. You guys (n gals) rock!!!

I'm so glad I own this product... you deserve every penny I paid for it

A deep thank you....

...now back to that funky volume script I dropped a few months back.