Linux by any chance?

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Simon S, Dec 11, 2017.

  1. Simon S

    Simon S New Member

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    Hi! I'm Maschine user since 2014. I posted this on different linux forums and they told me to post it at NI forums now. I'd like to ask for a client of maschine for linux. Maschine software could be launched by different ways on linux, but hardware is still impossible to be recognized in a proper way. I'm using linux for everything now. But when I wanna produce some music I have to switch to the windows. That makes me upset. Is there any chance to make a linux version of maschine software, kontrol and maschine jam for linux? I ask for that since 2 years and I'm ready to start a petition now. It would be more than great if you decide to support this platform! You are great with ideas, workflow etc. Keep it in mind that linux is a great system now as well.. Cheers anyway guys!
     
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  2. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    At this point, I think that 99% of the user base would be up in arms (to put it mildly) if any development time was spent porting to Linux.
     
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  3. alpert

    alpert NI Product Owner

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    I would be on that 1% part
     
  4. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    I'd love it on Linux, but bloody hell we can't even get MIDI out working on Windows correctly.
     
  5. alpert

    alpert NI Product Owner

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    This problem seems like "windows sucks" problem.
    It doesnt exist on osx.
    I dont know who sucks on this actually. Win or NI..

    Using this problem as "hell, we cant get... work on windows" is wrong in this context.
    Windows sucks, everybody knows that CakeAlexS except you :D
     
  6. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    NI development sucks for Windows.
    MIDI out works fine in other DAWs and Sequencers in Windows.
    Stop doing the Mac fanboy thing ;)
     
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  7. Mystic38

    Mystic38 NI Product Owner

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    No its not a windows sucks issue, its a NI issue...

    Look, Given that there is a dozen capable DAWs, and then there are 20 or more midi sequencers, both paid and unpaid that simply do not have this issue... therefore (and i know you are logical) it simply is not a Windows issue... never has been, on any Windows version.. even the shitty ones.

    Additionally, NI acknowledge it is a bug, and after three years gave a (not very satisfactory) workaround, yet with no commitment to actually removing the bug... so in windows with Maschine you can have either tight midi timing, OR you can use multiple ports.

    You are right however, there is certainly room for a Windows sux/ MAC sux thread, but it has nothing to do with midi and Maschine ;)

     
  8. alpert

    alpert NI Product Owner

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    NI development sucks both for windows & Osx
    I am a Linux fanboy, not mac. ;)
     
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  9. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

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    just run linux in a host like vm ware and pick one of the two OS that it is on..... i am not sure if they have vmware that runs in linux that can boot os x or windows, otherwise you could just do it that way... though OSX is kind of apple's version of linux.
     
  10. Scoox

    Scoox NI Product Owner

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    Bitwig, Reaper and U-he provide Linux versions (those are the ones I've heard of but I'm sure other companies do too). I think NI is in a strong position to get the wheels turning, because NI products are very popular. Kind of like the way Apple pushed USB Type-C. Even if the investment is pretty big, I think it would be great press for NI. Once a company the stature of NI pulls the trigger, everyone else will follow. And who knows, maybe other industries will too. The reason Windows is so popular is not because of what a great OS it is, but because nobody wants to be first. I can understand small companies not wanting to take risks, and to be honest now that Linux versions of Bitwig and Reaper (hats off to both companies BTW), there is clearly an open door for third-party plugins developers to explore, but keeping it open isn't free. How long will Bitwig and Cockos be able to keep that door open depends entirely on whether other companies decide to support the initiative. I hope it happens. Once Linux gains enough market share Windows and MacOS will be history. So really it's a question of whether companies like NI have the as*hole to be first.
     
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  11. GoaSkin

    GoaSkin NI Product Owner

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    The reason why the market for Windows and OS X is much better is quite simple: Almost every software is made to run on these operating systems while it is more hard to find alternatives you may run under linux, especially non-free software. On the other side, there is almost nothing that is exclusively usable under linux because even the open source applications are almost offered in versions for Mac OS X and Windows.

    It is uninteresting which operating system is better than the other. That is not the main reason who anybody uses a given operating system. And also not very important for the most users. They just want to run their favourite applications and their main interest is the usability of the applications they run, not the usability of the operating system. For example: The operating system makes Reaktor neither easier nor more complicated.

    Nevertheless, there are good reasons to support Linux.

    At first, you need to imagine that beside the operating systems Windows and macOS, the Linux operating system is "anything else". So, supporting Linux means to support nearly any operating system else. Based in the Linux kernel. the GNU subsystem and much common POSIX stuff, many different desktop enviroment and distros are realized. And these existing (and replaceable) components are also a suitable base to create new desktops and distros. If any company tries to establish a new operating system, to bank on this is their only chance while it is uneconomic to create something completely new. Even for companies like Google. Using a Linux kernel and the FOSS stuff makes the work to create a new operating system manageable. Furthermore, hardware drivers exist and so it is not necessary to invoke the hardware companies to support a further system. If big companies like Sony or Samsung establish demanded devices using a new operating system, Linux versions may become important very quickly. Even if it is just a new TV or Playstation able to run complex software and usable to produce music.

    Secondly, many professional users still use macOS because grew up with macOS in earlier days when professional users were the most important target group of Apple hardware. But the things have changed. The main target group in this days are consumers with an Apple fetish who are using everything from Apples and want to interact with their iPads and Apple Watches. On the other side, the Mac Pro became a big crap with very restricted possiblities to customize it and All-In-One-Systems like the iMacs are also contentious. I know many who feel theirselves addicted from a crap. If the users want to switch away from it, this is not only a chance for Microsoft.

    At last, it becomes more and more uncommon to go to a store and to buy there boxed software which surely runs under Windows. The software marked has changed. Thanks to the existence of online appstores under Linux, companies offering Linux versions find their users much easier.

    Personally I mainly work with OSX and Logic but I really don't like it anymore. I boot up this system only to work with Logic (what I am using since 15 years) and do anything else under Ubuntu. I have bitwig studio installed under Linux and use there some Windows DAW plugins using WINE (including some by Native Instruments) but this has only an evaluation character up to now because I have a much better practice with Logic Pro and it's factory plugins.
     
  12. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,332
    Would be nice.
    Never gonna happen.
     
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  13. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

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    2,179
    there would still be a lack of plug in and high end hardware support.

    for a DAW or workstation, not really practical to develop .. BUT, for a lean kernal level sampler or synth, it makes quite a bit of sense to build this.
    we had gigastudio that did similar on pc's... you could with a 486/586/pentium and giga or emu OS outperform a mac or pc xeon with all the bloat gone with a system that did only the exact audio funtions needed... imaging that in an ol' 12 core mac pro and a lean audio os... oh wait, that is bad for new computer sales and the $$$ upgrade go round.

    the pro is that it could be build to run at the kernal level with an linux based OS you boot into with no bloat... so you go turn any i series processor computer into a dedicated sampler or synth. we may see a reaktor workstation based on this. currenty with the mac and win phone-esque bloat, the system takes almost an entire core with background processes hitting the cpu here and there.

    the con is that once developed, little upgrades are needed... just like a hardware synth... wait,.. that is a pro and win..... the only con is that you would need a midi and audio link with your main workstation DAW which could easily be done via ethernet.
     
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  14. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    This is in my professional opinion, having worked with a major software developer in porting their software to Linux (you'd know the name even if you aren't a user).

    The market demand to make this worthwhile financially simply still isn't there, and likely won't be for some time, if it indeed ever is there for enough money to make it worthwhile. Development/porting costs outweigh the money that's there for most developers currently. Now, if NI were going to make a standalone Maschine that used Linux, sure, it would probably be a happy by-product as I've said a few times on the forums, but development on that has stopped, and it was almost certainly for ARM.

    Audio production is a real niche at the best of times, Linux is an even smaller niche. The percentage of people willing to pay within that niche? Very, very, very few. A lot of the Linux die-hards are die-hards because of the amount of free software that's typically open source in some capacity.

    Now don't get me wrong, Linux has massive potential, but it isn't sexy or appealing to the average consumer like macOS, iOS or Windows are. I absolutely adore Zynthian (I run it on a v3 kit with a Pi) and think it's one of my favorite synths and fx boxes of all time, but it's definitely a niche product that's honestly aimed at geeks, with myself being a geek. Yes, a fair few people within audio are geeks, but to be honest, the people who are doing this professionally generally don't have the time to invest in messing around with Linux when their existing workflow works just fine, and has done for years.

    I'm currently getting involved with adding control voltage support to Zynthian, but I'm an absolute minority who are willing to help contribute to their own tools and workflows. Most people literally just want to buy the product from the store or website and use it. You only have to look at audio production forums or sub-Reddits to see how non-tech-savvy the majority of users are.

    NI, IMO, simply isn't in a position to push Linux adoption. DAW developers on the other hand are, but even Reaper's Linux adoption has been less than what the community anticipated.

    Me? I would consider Linux, but I'm a Windows 10 user after fleeing Apple post-Steve Jobs. I don't see the need to switch at present because my existing workflow just works, and is unobtrusive, and without problems in my own experiences, and regardless of whatever I add to it or change, it just keeps working.

    Windows and macOS being "history" is unlikely given how most desktop software runs on either, and most industry-standard software and proprietary file types simply aren't supported on Linux. Drivers are the other big problem.
     
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  15. Kaldosh

    Kaldosh NI Product Owner

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    I didn't know for bitwig and reaper...wow, I am super motivated for Linux now..just wow..
     
  16. GoaSkin

    GoaSkin NI Product Owner

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    A restricted version of Bitwig is very often bundled with music magazines. It is called "Bitwig 4-Track" and the restriction is that your songs are restricted to 4 tracks. But to evaluate Bitwig that is sufficient. The usage of Bitwig is a little bit peculiar but in my opinion, it is much more sophisticated than Reaper.

    Hardware support is also no big problem as long as you use USB devices because over 90% of all soundcards and MIDI equipment runs with generic drivers.

    In this forum, we are talking about the Maschine devices. These are HID devices handled by the HID drivers but as long as neither the Maschine software is available for Linux nor anybody else coded an usable alternative, the driver support is useless in this case. There are some minimalist programs on the net to demonstrate how to interact with Maschine but you want to use the device for it's main purpose and not to see cats on the displays surrounded by a button light disco.
     
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  17. John McMullen

    John McMullen New Member

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    I check this thread regularly.

    Linux user. Former user of Komplete 8. Loved it, but hated windoze so much that I would rather forfeit the ability to use Komplete software than keep using windoze. (Some products can run with wine (windows on linux) but its not reliable enough to use in a creative workflow)

    So, until NI does make some Linux products, I won't be making any more purchases.

    5 years ago, I thought they would have done this by 2020... oh well.
     
  18. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,332
    Would be nice but not gonna happen. See you in 2030.
     
  19. John McMullen

    John McMullen New Member

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    "See you in 2030"
    No you won't. Dream on boy, I'm way, way out of your league.
     
  20. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,332
    It's a date then...