Loading of patches slow.

Hia,

I'm running bandstand with band in a box which loads of people seem to do. Is there any way that I can make the patches load faster when the songs start? Surely if most songs use standard sounds (pianos, guitars etc.) couldn't they just be loaded into ram? I've got 2.5gb ram and it'd be nice to use it...

Thanks,

Richard

 

Hi Richard,

that idea came up on this forum a good while ago! I have a prototype running that will load all samples into memory by loading a special preset after startup.

if you have Kontakt 2, I can also tell you how to do it yourself.


best,
Markus

 

Markus, as you know I have both Bandstand and Kontakt 2. I would be interested in a faster loading setup in either Bandstand or Kontakt for use with midi or auto accompaniment style files.

Your help will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

 

Hi all,

sure, here is the basic idea and the process.

please let me know if this works and the following data:

* total size of the Quickload multi once it is loaded
* time to load this multi in Bandstand
* max loading time for your songs in Bandstand

enjoy!


best,
Markus

***

idea: preload the beginnings of all samples into memory right after startup of Bandstand. we will do this by using a special Bandstand preset (multi in Kontakt!) that contains the samples of all instruments in instrument slots that are not used in Bandstand.

***

process:

1) start Bandstand 1.0.1 R3 - it is important to use the latest versions to ensure that the master effects will still work after saving the preset in Kontakt 2.1.1!
2) ensure that the Bandstand Options to ignore program changes or mixer settings after the first note are NOT set and save the empty state as a new preset, e.g. "Quickload"
3) stop Bandstand
4) start Kontakt 2.1.1
5) load the Quickload multi from the Presets folder in the Bandstand
library - you will not see any changes in the Kontakt rack, however, the
Bandstand effects are in the Output section!

***

excursion: the first multi page (1-16) is reserved for Bandstand; in order to preload samples, we need to create dummy instruments on another page; because the Bandstand library uses different DFD settings for some isntruments, we need to create more than one isntrument that reflects the correct DFD setting; we are only using these dummy instruments as sample containes not to play back samples! so it does not matter if dozens of samples are stacked on top of each other

***

6) do load/save - new instrument 20 times - this creates 16 instruments
on page 1 and 4 instrument on page two (just a workaround for a bug that
does not allow you to create new instrument starting directly on page 2!)
7) delete the 16 instruments on page 1 and go back to page two - 4
instruments are still here!
8) ensure that the instruments are set to MIDI channels B1 - B4; also set the instrument volumes to - infinity to be save
9) name the first instrument "DFD 60 kB"
10) name the second isntrument "DFD 150 kB", click on the Edit button (wrench), click on Instrument Options, select the DFD tab, and enter 150 kB preload buffer
11) name the third instrument "Samper", go into edit mode, go to the source module, and select the Sampler mode
12) keep the fourth instrument as a placeholder for now

***

do the following for each of the 128 Bandstand instruments plus the 9 drum sets; be careful when switching between the loaded instruments and the four dummy instruments above! always select the dummy instrument the corresponds to the sampling mode and DFD preload buffer size of the currently loaded instrument!


13) drag the Bandstand instrument / drum set from the lower browser window into the empty rack under neath the four dummy instruments
14) go into edit mode of the loaded instrument; note the source mode and the DFFD preload buffer size if applicable, e.g. 001 Piano 1.nki is in DFD mode and has a preload buffer of 150 kB - this means that we will use the second dummy instrument above to store its samples!
15) open the Mapping Editor, click Edit - Select All Zones, click Edit - Copy Zones
16) exit the edit mode of the loaded instrument
17) go to the matching dummy instrument - in this case the second one "DFD 150 kb" and enter the edit mode
18) click on Mapping Editor, select Edit - Paste Zones
exit the edit mode of the loaded instrument
19) close the loaded instrument by clicking on the x button in the upper right corner - do not save any changes!

x) save you multi into the Presets folder; select patch only and relative sample paths!

again: repeat steps 13 - 19 for all instruments and drum sets; save the multi every once in a while; watch the total memory size in the Kontakt header just on the left of the Disk meter - you can also check the Engine tab in the Browser for more detailed info; if you get close to your total RAM size - 500 MB or 2 GB, you need to maybe decide to forget about the sampler instruments and delete the dummy third instrument above - these instruments are pretty small and load pretty fast already; another option would be to lower the DFD buffer size in the instruments that are set to 150 kB; however, this does not work well on slow Macs (all G4 machines); use the fourth dummy instrument above for any other DFD buffer settings

***

congratulations! now you are done creating your Bandstand sample preload multi! here is how you use it:

1) start Bandstand
2) load the Quickload preset
3) wait! when using 60 kB preload buffer this takes about 1:30; probably 3-4 minutes for the mixture above
4) now load your songs - times should be almost immediate now; use an external MIDI file player to further speed up loading times - this is due to the fact that the internal player waits for loading to be finished unteil starting the song; loading times should be fast enough now, however, to load within the 3 bars at the start of each MIDI song

never use the New Preset button in Bandstand! this would reload the empty default preset and you would have to load the Quickload preset again; just load each song after the other like with the built-in playlist - that way you can reuse the same sounds in between songs and load even less data!

 

Richard, a simple workaround in BIAB is to leave two or three blank bars at he beginning of a song. Also, have you read the copious but useful README file 'Bandstand Technical Notes' that came with BIAB's patch 220 recently addressing this (and other) issues? Here's a link to the PDF:
BIAB Technical Note

Regards
John

 

Markus, thanks for your indepth response but it may be a little complex for an old man....namely myself!!!

 

Hi Frank,

yup, I am aware of that ;-)

if I get the time I will try to prepare at least the single dummy instruments for you! I cannot load the whole multi on my machine because I only have 1 GB RAM.


best,
Markus

 

Hi all,

good news! I finally got around to follow my own instructions below and build the Quickload.nkm preset.

try it out today!

just download the zip file from the location below, unpack the NKM file into the Bandstand Library/Presets folder, and load the new preset into Bandstand.

it should take about 1-2 minutes to load the preset once and then just a couple of seconds to load instruments for each song.

you need at least 1.25 DB RAM to use this preset. the sample size is about 750 MB plus about 100 MB for Bandstand with default settings. the OS needs around 200 MB as well so 1 GB is probably not cutting it.

looking forward to your feedback!

http://nidownload.minuskel.de/Bandstand_Quickload.zip


best,
Markus

 

Markus, I followed the download directions and I can see the Quickload.NKM in the library/preset folder. But when I open Bandstand and click on the dropdown menu for Presets, it doesn't show up. It probably wouldn't work anyway since I only have 1GB but I wanted to try it.

Thanks.

 

Hi Susan,

it works for me on the PC. which platform are you on?

also: when you save your own preset in Bandstand, does the NKM file with the same name appear in your Prests folder?


best,
Markus

 

Markus, are there still plans to add XG compatible drum kits to Bandstand? Would be nice for using Yamaha styles in a one man band applications.

Again, thanks to you and NI for all the innovative products available to us.

 

Hi Frank,

I have the specs ready and I believe we also got the sounds. however, I am not sure when I can get the time from the sound designers. let me check how if that was a popular request in the user survey.

is the Quickload prest working for you?


best,
Markus

 

> are there still plans to add XG compatible drum kits to Bandstand?

I'd love Bandstand to expand its features to GS and XG so-called "variations" too.

 

that is even further out. we would need to reprogram a good part of the application, automation and scripts. also we would have to buy and finetune lots of more sounds!

let's first concentrate on other important features and improving the existing sound set!


best,
Markus

 

Markus, the Quickload you produced for Bandstand works very well indeed. There may be some loading issues if there are instrument or program changes in the middle of a midi or style file while it is playing. In addition, if you want to use kontakt for lead or melody voices, your computer will need at least 2 GBs of memory.

Thanks for all the good work.

 

Hi Frank,

I am glad to hear that it works for you

I tested at least 100 Profi-MIDI files here, and they all loaded fine also in the middle of the song. The GM2 Developer Guidelines recommend to program change only in silent portions of the song. I understand this to be the usual 2-3v bars in advance of playing the next notes on this channel like in the beginning of the song. that should be enough time for the Quickload preset.

can you post the files in question?

http://www.midi.org/about-midi/gm/gmguide2.pdf


best,
Markus

 

Markus, I have not tested all my Yamaha styles or midi files I use for live performances. I just deduced an issue watching the loading of patches at the beginning when you first load a style file. I agree with you if you load the required patches 2 measures in advance then there should be no glitch. However, I have a feeling I would need to edit some of my style and midi files.....a small price to pay for a good sounding GM Wavetable.

Thank you

 

thanks, Frank.

I also now edited my post below slightly and added the link to the guidelines on the MIDI.org website! you might want to check the Compser Recommendations.

has anybody else tried the new Quickload multi? anybody on a G4 Mac?


best,
Markus

 

Markus

Many thanks for the Quickload preset. This is excellent and obviously needs to be built into the product in future as an option for the user to load if they wish. Thanks for your hard work.

For information it takes 1 min 5 secs. on my PC to load into Bandstand in stand alone mode. My PC spec is:

- AMD 2.2 Ghz processor
- 2 Gb RAM
- XP Pro. SP2

Regards
John

 

Hi John,

these are great numbers ;-)

I will make sure that it gets into the Mactel update!


best,
Markus