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    Please note that although announced at the same time as macOS Big Sur, Apple Silicon processors are an independent release with separate compatibility concerns for NI products. Compatibility with macOS Big Sur will not yet ensure compatibility with Apple Silicon processors. At the moment, Native Instruments products are not supported on computers with Apple Silicon processors. Read more - here

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macOS Big Sur

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by CrusadeGT, Nov 12, 2020.

  1. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    420
    The single core performance of the M1 blows away all previous Intel Macs by a huge margin — even the fastest iMac (the previous single core leader; the Mac Pro is all about multicore and is not a contender for single core). And that’s based on benchmarks run on the new MacBook Air — the slowest of the new machines (because it has no fan).

    The M1 is a giant leap forward. We’ve only seen the low end version so far, and it absolutely embarrasses every CPU Intel has ever made.

    Multicore is a different story, because it only has four high performance cores (so far), but the forthcoming Pro versions will no doubt have higher core counts.

    It’ll be awhile before all audio software has been updated to take full advantage of Apple Silicon, but make no mistake — this is going to be a revolutionary leap forward in performance across the entire lineup.
     
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  2. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    9,268
    I installed Big Sur a couple of days ago, my house didn't burn down and I am still alive, I cloned my OS drive in case anything went wrong.
    Maschine and KK seem to work fine, I haven't done any extensive testing yet but so far so good.
    Ableton seems to work fine, all my plugins, etc... but Cubase (V9) as usual has a couple of issues (final push I needed to fully get rid of it).

    On a side note, I did a clean OS install and used NI uninstall guide for mac to check where NI stores all it's files and just copied everything over to the new OS/SSD before running NA for the first time, it surprisingly worked flawlessly, I didn't have to install or relocate anything (mainly because I always set the same computer User name which some paths depend on).

    I still would not recommend anyone to upgrade yet...
     
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  3. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,226

    are you sure about that, while possible in the case of an i3 or I5 using apple optimized Big Sur apps as those are tech from like 2010, which using an M1 conveniently hides for marketing, it is very doubtful in the case of the MacBook Pro 13. if you want some real world numbers of an apple "bionic" "A12Z Bionic chip with 64-bit architecture-Neural Engine-Embedded M12 coprocessor", which sounds so fast and powerful it was hard to even type, found in an iPad Pro 3/4. well now compare this 2019/20 super computer replacer against a modest 2017/8 MacBook Pro with a 4 core 3.1ghz i7.. okay here is a real number for you I have done, image resize and export in adobe Lightroom. MacBook Pro: less than 1 second, iPad Pro: about 2 minutes.... yup apples and oranges there.... now, I think the iPad is great for many things and I highly recommend it, but just not complete replacement for a desktop grade laptop. to compare the m1 to a12 .. wait until they put it in the 2021 iPad Pro 13.. then go for it... now that would be nice to see Big Sur run on.
     
  4. scheffkoch

    scheffkoch NI Product Owner

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    586
    ...you really don't have a clue what you're talking about...
     
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  5. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

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    2,226
    actually I do quite well know what I am talking about... here is a summary, the m1 is only "just" good in a device incapable of running a secondary internal gpu, otherwise you will be disappointed... real world test are more important over theoretical ones. I suggest you do the tests yourself with what is important to you... you have 2 weeks to return any apple computer for any reason if you keep it like new.,
     
  6. Mutis

    Mutis NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    510
    Adobe will be one of the first to port apps... Did you tried the specific version for M1?

    edited to add:
    https://cdm.link/2020/11/big-sur-and-the-new-macs-look-promising-but-youll-want-to-wait/
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  7. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

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    2,226
    Well, no need to get so uoset.. your results may vary to what your needs deem as important. Me, I don't wantwatch a spinning cursor, ... don't get caught in the hype of fast sounding things... when I updated a xeon to more cores than I needed in a mac pro, I found that for some tasks in audio, my old i5 macbook pro did it better... .. so do the real world tests first, in my often biased opinion, I do not think the m1 is very good right now over what it is proposed to replace .... you may find issues in apps that use a lot of ram, gpu and cpu at the same time... or you find it works great for you.. keep the mind open.. latest and fast sounding words or lettets are just marketing tools...
     
  8. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

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    420
    Yep.

    Nope.
     
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  9. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,226
    Okay, don’t listen, go ahead get it now, or install os 11, and wait 3 months to really use it when SOME of the software and hardware catches up. or you could wait about a year and get the 2021 13 to 16 inch iPad Pro that will have the m1 and likely be able to run the same apps as os 11, emulation or native. Apple has a history of changing overnight so it may just decide to not use the M1 in upper line models and thus the MacBook Pro you got is now an orphan.... i don’t know about you, but i wish i could run a full version of maschine on my iPad Pro and link it to my controller or the new M3+.. so in that i welcome the M!,. But as a person who makes a living using audio and design/photo software, i know the M1 at this stage is inadequate for commercial/profession cpu/gpu use in a professional grade laptop.. .. what was it they said of virtues and patience.
     
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  10. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    9,268
    The embargo for reviews and first impressions was lifted 2 hours ago... they should start flooding youtube.

    For a video render test MKHB's 50,000$ (or more) Mac Pro finished the job in 7min; 16" Intel in 11min and the M1 13" MBP did it in 13min... :eek:
    Half the speed of a mega-expensive Mac Pro for only 1299$ or roughly the same as a 16", real-world usage, not just a synthetic benchmark; considering it's a first-gen device this looks very promising. Video is way more demanding than Audio but then again some encoding formats have dedicated acceleration but still...

    I would def get an M1 device if I used Logic since it's the first DAW to be ported being from apple and all.. Since I don't I'll probably wait for M2 in a year or two.
     
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  11. ALDREAD

    ALDREAD NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,404
    I ordered the Mac mini , 3 week wait for stock to come in , thought I’d better get it before I sell my old one to make sure I can use my Catalina time machine backup on os11.
     
  12. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

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    2,226
    The Final Cut Pro demo on the apple event was most impressive, like it runs at kernel level. My concerns on the models that would normally have a secondary gpu is the gpu with third party software - when i use adobe software and assign the gpu its makes a huge difference in performance and it does make my fan spin full on so a fanless gpu seems like there may be some throttling eventually....

    Not sure if you can run vm ware yet on those or with the os 11, it will be a while until there is native third party support and not just adapted intel apps running in emulation

    The mini caught my eye as well, as it seems like a good way to distribute the load and have true multi processors.. ie.. run a soft synth on it only like reaktor of massive.... or offload processing to it.... looks like a good modular one to hack into a 1 space rack in pairs with a fan and ssd... in fact the mini has the potential to be a drop in cpu just like you dock a phone or tablet.. also makes a good way to transition to the new hardware while one waits for the software and hardware and hang on to what you have for a while

    I was most disappointed about the missing MacBook Pro 16 that was to have similar to what was in the latest iiMac that came out couple months agoi was ready to upgrade mine as it is about to turn 3 and was ready to purchase per the announcement....
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
  13. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,268
    What Adobe software? Premiere?
    Dave Lee tested Premiere (non native) and was pretty happy about it, a lot faster than a 13" MBP 2019 and half the speed of a 16".... that's reeeeeally decent for a non-native application. When it does get native support in 2067 (lol) it should be a lot faster.

    No dedicated GPU doesn't mean it's necessarily bad, depends on the workload, encode format, etc... Of course, for something like high end games it will always suck.


    [​IMG]
    Source @5min Mark.

    Even with intel based Macs with dedicated GPUs Premiere is not very efficient, it really shines a lot more on NVIDIA, which Apple doesn't use for a long time and won't ever use in the foreseeable future.... Theres no drivers for NVIDIA in modern Apple OS's, that's the main reason most Mac video editors use Final Cut or Davinci Resolve. I've compared Mac/Windows both with AMD or NVIDIA GPU's myself, I am not just spitballing. Unless you work for a company that requires you to use Premiere, it doesent make much sense in Mac's in today's age.
     

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  14. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,226
    the Mac mini m1 seems to have the best bang for buck, but the memory limitation is a hurdle... only 8g of soldered on memory. i notice the same with the MBP 13 as well... kind of still like a phone.. ram also generates heat.. so the fanless thing may not be so good me thinks.... .. I think the specs for the M1 MBP 13 are misleading as there were more configurations such as 32g ram and i7 2.3... etc.. with the intel MBP 13. I would grab the M1 mini and build my own iMac if is was able to have more ram, at least 16G... as one can always add a black magic external gpu to it as well.
     
  15. Andrew Stirling

    Andrew Stirling NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    45
    The memory is part of the M1 as far as I’m aware so 8gb is as good as it gets at the moment. I imagine there will be 16gb versions coming early next year.

    It’s worth recognising that the current chips are a replacement for their entry level MacBooks. And with that in mind, their performance is astonishing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,226
    there is also burst performance vs sustained performance...

    .. ever get one of those great spec usb 3 thumb drives to find they are fast for only about the first 700M of a file or files and thereafter ridiculously slow with the rest of the file/s....

    it is impressive for a first generation considering how long intel has been at it... I noticed the intel versions are all still for sale from apple..usually they pull those with new versions...
     
  17. Kymeia

    Kymeia NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    6,131
    What chip is in the Maschine +?
     
  18. ALDREAD

    ALDREAD NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,404
    You can upgrade to 16 gb in the Apple store , £200 extra , you can also upgrade the dd up to 2tb
     
  19. ALDREAD

    ALDREAD NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,404
    Ni won’t tell , I think, don’t know if anyone figured it out tho
     
  20. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,268
    Intel Atom E3940 or E3950, which one doesn't matter much, they are very similar. The one with lower power consumption makes more sense tho ;)

    Jesus dude... Where are you pulling your info from???
    The Mini M1 supports 16GB, my Hackintosh is also 16Gb and I run projects with 150 tracks... just fine. If you make music with 500 tracks then this is not for you to begin with. If you're heavy into 4k video then yes, 16GB might not be enough if your projects are complicated.

    ?
    You keep talking like this is a normal intel CPU and making weird comparisons... heat problems was one of the main reasons Apple ditched intel in the first place, they want their devices to be slim which is clearly an issue with intel. This is 5 nanometers not 14, it consumes much less power which = much less heat, the battery life is crazy...
    Ram heat is really negligible, have you ever heard of RAM thermally trotelling? I haven't...
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
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