main volume in the red please help

i just got my macbook pro back(the hard drive crashed). I reinstalled traktor scratch pro. But there is a problem the master volume is pushing into the red. When It was installed previously auto gain and the limiter kept the master output meter below the red now it constantly hits the red. Before I never had to turn down the master.
Does everyone elses hit the red if you have auto gain on and the limiter with two tracks going and the master at 0db. this is really bugging me out

 

I have my master at -10db with auto gain and no limiter. Otherwise, I get above 0db on my external mixer. Is the sound clipping? I would assume that the limiter is preventing audible clipping, but I would think it's best to turn down the master.

As a side note, the autogain feature doesn't work the first time an unanalysed track is loaded. Is this happening to previously analysed mp3s?

 

I use wavs and they have been pre anylised. So everyone here has to turn down there master in the software? I never had this problem before what is goin on. The levels goin into my mixer are way higher too. Should I try and reinstall.

 

Did you transfer over your collection.nml file? With wavs that is the only location of stored data for your previously analysed tracks. Just a guess, but if the gains are all at 12 o'clock and are not auto adjusting resulting in clipping signal, that could be the cause.

 

I didnt transfer over any file from the previous hard drive. My question is everyone here is having to turn down there master volume knob in the software. I never had to do this before. Does everyone have to turn down there master?

 

I'm only aware of the need to turn down the master when mixing externally. When I mix internally I don't need to do this.
My question about the collection.nml file was for the following reason: with wavs there is no way for the bpm, cues, beatgrid and gain adjustment to be saved within the file as these tags are supported by the wav format. This information is instead saved in Traktor's collection.nml file. Since installing Traktor on a new computer the wav files need to be reanalysed, if the collection.nml file is not moved to the new computer, for new gain adjust values to be determined. The old values are not there. When you are loading a track into Traktor it is being analysed and will determine a tempo and gain adjustment value, but that adjustment won't take effect until it is reloaded. Therefore the gain at 12 o'clock, zero adjustment may be too high. The collection.nml file also contains the tree structure for your collection, so it's important to have the folder structure the same on both computers if you do move the .nml file. You might be able to run the consistancy checker to relocate the files if the folder structure changes.
This is my understanding of how tagging works with wavs and the collection.nml file. Someone may ned to correct my information or may have another idea for you.
I don't know if this is why you are having the issue, but it's worth trying to load a track twice to see if the adjustment takes place and the new gain level gives a better master level when at 0db.

 

yeah, i think the master volume is pretty hot - i'm turning it down a good deal, too.
(external mixer)

 

well got same problem..
setup: traktor scratch pro software ( audio8dj / xone 1D , no cdjs or vinyl, external mixer djm800) and my main volume is going red all the time..

limiter is on.. i don't hear any clipping.. only visual is going red...

when recording my volume is too low..

 

So technical bug or visual bug...? And what To do about it?
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So is this à technical bug (limiter not doing its work) or visual bug only? And what To do about it...?

 

The limiter does the job very well, specially in the new update, there's no clipping after recording, in an analog meter you can go a bit on the red (just touching the red ramdomly but don't staying there) without fear of distortion, I think that Traktor's meter works the same way, I don't turn-off the master or the recording volume just leave it at the default 0dBs and either my live mixes and my recordings sound pretty good.

 

When you have Traktor's limiter on, you don't have to worry about turning down the master. If you don't use the limiter, then you could turn it down especially for when you are doing internal mixing and have two or more tracks mixing while in sync/on beat.

Turning down the master because you think the signal is too hot going into your external mixer is a waste. Your Audio8 DJ (or other) has high output circuitry/converters, which is a good thing. When you turn down the master, it's like buying a fast computer and turning down the processor speed or setting it on 'Power Saver' mode (Win 7).

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I just did a test with Traktor and a few audio signals I generated. When you see Red in the Main meter, then the audio is clipping, that is 0dB is reached. The meter actually does a good job at this. The Red will be seen if the signal has reached 0dB for even a small fraction of a second... which is not a big deal for DJ applications. The auto-gain does a good job as well. BTW, my paragraphs above still holds true.

I don't know how the meter is defined in the coding when you have two tracks playing externally... are the two deck outputs summed together... if so, this would not make sense because each deck has its own physical channel out, so you should only use the meter behind the vertical channel faders (but they don't show Red for some reason). For internal mixing, the Main meter should sum up the output (very important!).

So, it's not a visual bug at all. I believe the Auto-Gain and the Limiter has been defined to give you the loudest output with some very minute digital clipping.

 

Definitely not a waste as it IS too hot and puts the input well into the red on the VU meter of my mixer. I don't want limiters compressing the sound going to the mixer. If Traktors master out is at -10dB I get a peak of 0dB for most autogained tracks on the mixer.

 

0dB for an external mixer is NOT the same thing as 0dB in the digital sense. I believe my Xone92 can handle +22dB and the red is indicated at +10dB. I also use my Konnket24D studio audio card, which is much louder than the Audio8 DJ.

Your mixer should be able to handle the inputs no problem if you're using an Ecler. Also, check your channel gains on your mixer, mine are at 0dB gain.

 

My channel gains are at zero and I don't hear clipping at +6dB on the mixer, but like to keep green with little jumps into yellow so I can monitor my mix. If I habitually let it go red it could be harder to know when my levels are even for two tracks especially when one track is in the PA/monitor and the incoming is in my headphones and on the PFL meter. It's not so much about protecting my equipment or PA system as it can handle a hot signal, but about using the meters to aid a smooth even mix.

 

I mix internally with the limiter on. To keep the master meter from going higher than an occasional short red, I have the master gain set at -1.5db. This seems to be about right because when I connect through an external mixer, I just occasionally go red on the external mixer.

 

Dude, if an output is clipped coming out of Traktor and into the Ecler, it doesn't matter what kind of headroom the Ecler has. You're using a sub par signal, and it won't sound as good as if it were not clipped.

The limiter really should be used as insurance, not as a way to keep your average level super-hot. Listen to it. It absolutely kills the audio when you drive it too hard.

Here's the rule with digital audio: Try not to clip it at all. Period. Do what you want with it once (or if) it gets to an analog circuit. Traktor's master out is pretty hot in internal mode, for external a little less so. Don't be worried about having your master at -10, -6db or whatever. The important thing is that you have the headroom you need for your particular style. Sync up as many tracks as you would maximally use, eq things how you would normally. Then drop that master level down to where you don't (or only occasionally) redline.

 

I totally agree. I acknowledged this above with the following:

"... I believe the Auto-Gain and the Limiter has been defined to give you the loudest output with some very minute digital clipping."

and

"The Red will be seen if the signal has reached 0dB for even a small fraction of a second... which is not a big deal for DJ applications."

I was just saying that the signal level is acceptable on Traktor's side with the main level at 0dB. My general message was not about it being too hot in the digital realm, it was about what came out of the Audio8 DJ. Some above were complaining that it was too hot going into their mixer.

I totally agree. The limiter 'should' never come on if your tracks are auto-gained and if you're using an external mixer. For internal, it's another story.

NI should implement a limiter clip light beside the main meter for internal users and a clip light for each deck/channel as well for external users. Because the way the limiter is defined, the signal still goes in the Red in the main meter... so, we would never know if the limiter is kicking in or not. Therefore, the clip light would be handy for DJs (like me) that want a hot clean signal and don't want the limiter kicking in (almost) ever.

Of course, as mentioned, you could "drop the master level" to compensate for uncertainty.

 

Hell yes. Great idea. Of course there's been an extremely active discussion going on with regards to Traktor's VU meters, both channel and master, and their useful (or useless)-ness. Apologies for not remembering what the thread is called. Metering in TPro leaves a lot to be desired, that's for sure.

Just as a personal observation, it seems to me that in external mode, the master clips if any one deck clips, and it does not represent a summation of the signals like the way it does in internal mode. It's more like the master metering of each deck is layed out on top of one another, and we get a visual representation of that.

 

Thanks for the above... I was hoping the meter worked exactly as what you observed, which makes sense.

I made a feature request for the limiter clip light. I hope NI considers it.

In general, I think Traktor & Audio 8 DJ together sound pretty good in internal and external mode.

 

Now what I dont get if I play a signal which never, if feed into traktor with all gains zeroed out - why does it clip?

Seems that's what it does...

I have to run my master at -10 as well.

Comments regarding the mixer are null and void. This is calibrated post output from the soundcard. Levels here relative to output strengths from the device feeding it.

I saw mention of VU? Is the master meter a VU or peak?